tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188152152024-03-23T21:14:00.418+11:00Open and ShutThis blog takes an interest in issues associated with Freedom of Information (FOI) and privacy legislation in Australia. Information contained on this site is general in nature and does not constitute legal
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Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.comBlogger3116125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-83639541551659567592022-09-29T11:32:00.000+10:002022-09-29T11:32:32.550+10:00Perfect record-no improper playing around with Federal government records!!<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Well believe that and I've got a nice harbour bridge to sell you !</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipL0qZoin6xkjuxuwuBOfO6OzezXf5WL8FZQKt5yZm4lYktaU6ruaykz44rPXuW86zRPGu-Py-GYKXQI2hp2-K3TEsdyfvfSysYvCLAQdB2K3snDRg7j8kZZdFY0prB2W8DKE8aMkrFwrV8cMsedUJ7wAuU4zyeMMSZj6cA_ElepBwyvCZwg/s1264/sydney-harbour-1554486.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="618" data-original-width="1264" height="156" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipL0qZoin6xkjuxuwuBOfO6OzezXf5WL8FZQKt5yZm4lYktaU6ruaykz44rPXuW86zRPGu-Py-GYKXQI2hp2-K3TEsdyfvfSysYvCLAQdB2K3snDRg7j8kZZdFY0prB2W8DKE8aMkrFwrV8cMsedUJ7wAuU4zyeMMSZj6cA_ElepBwyvCZwg/s320/sydney-harbour-1554486.jpg" width="320" /></a></span></div><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">What can be said is no one who has done so has been caught and smacked with a penalty, currently $4440.<br /></span></span><p></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The email below was received from National Archives Australia on 28 September 2022- it took seven months to get an answer.<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Section 24 Archives Act (text below)- creates an offence and confers power to impose a penalty for unauthorised </span><span style="font-family: arial;">'Disposal, destruction etc. of Commonwealth records' and its been on the books for 39 years! <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">According to Archives, no penalties as provided in Section 24 have ever been imposed on </span><span style="font-family: arial;">a minister, former minister, staff member or public servant.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">I'm still waiting to hear anything about investigations that obviously didn't lead to any penalty.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">...................... <br /></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Dear Mr Timmins,</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Thank you for your enquiry to the National Archives of Australia dated 14 February 2022. Please accept my apologies for the delayed reply. </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Our response to each question is noted below:</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="headertext1" style="color: #2266bb; font-weight: bold;"><span>Details of the reference inquiry:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span style="color: mediumblue;"><br /><br /><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;">How many infringement notices have been issued under Section 24 of the Archives Act to a minister, former minister, staff member or public servant ?</span></span><span style="color: black;"></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The National Archives has not issued any infringement notices to a minister, former minister, staff member or public servant under Section 24 of the Archives Act 1983.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="color: mediumblue;"><br /><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;">If notices have been issued, what are the dates of the latest notices and the names of the persons in each of those categories?</span></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">N/A<br /><span style="color: mediumblue;"><br /><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;">If any issued notices resulted in court proceedings, what are the names of parties?</span></span><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;"></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">N/A<br /><span style="color: mediumblue;"><br /><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;">If no notices have been issued, how many investigations of possible breaches of Section 24 have been undertaken, and when was the most recent investigation?</span></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;"><span> </span></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">In order to provide you with an accurate response to this question, the National Archives is recalling paper records which have not been digitised. This will take the National Archives sometime to provide you with a response to this particular question. The National Archives is endeavouring to answer this question as soon as possible.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;"><span> </span></span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="valuetext1" style="color: mediumblue;"> </span></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Kind regards,</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">..........................</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Archives Act 1983<br /></span></span></p><p class="ActHead5"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><a name="_Toc83305162"><span class="CharSectno"><span lang="EN-AU">24</span></span><span lang="EN-AU"> Disposal, destruction etc. of Commonwealth records</span></a></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU"> (1) Subject to this Part, a person must not engage in conduct that results in:</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU"> (a) the destruction or other disposal of a Commonwealth record; or</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU"> (b) the transfer of the custody or ownership of a Commonwealth record; or</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU"> (c) damage to or alteration of a Commonwealth record.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="Penalty"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">Penalty: 20 penalty units.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(1A) For the purposes of an offence against subsection (1), strict
liability applies to the physical element of circumstance of the
offence, that the record is a Commonwealth record.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="notetext"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">Note: For <b><i>strict liability</i></b>, see section 6.1 of the <i>Criminal Code</i>.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU"> (2) Subsection (1) does not apply to anything done:</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU"> (a) as required by any law;</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(b) with the permission of the Archives or in accordance with a
practice or procedure approved by the Archives;</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(c) in accordance with a normal administrative practice, other than a
practice of a Department or authority of the Commonwealth of which the
Archives has notified the Department or authority that it disapproves;
or</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(d) for the purpose of placing Commonwealth records that are not in
the custody of the Commonwealth or of a Commonwealth institution in the
custody of the Commonwealth or of a Commonwealth institution that is
entitled to custody of the records.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to the destruction of a Commonwealth
record, being a record to which subsection 47(1), 70(1) or 107(1) of
the <i>Copyright Act 1968</i> applies, where the Director‑General has declined to consent to the delivery of the record to the Archives.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(4) This section does not authorize the Archives to permit the
destruction or other disposal of a Commonwealth record that is in the
possession of, or has been transferred to the care of the Archives by, a
Commonwealth institution, without the consent of that institution or of
a Commonwealth institution that has succeeded to the relevant functions
of that institution.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-AU">
(5) For the purposes of the application of subsection (1) to a record
of a kind used by means of any mechanical or electronic device or
equipment, including a computer, any treatment or modification of the
record that would prevent the obtaining from the record of information
or matter that could previously have been obtained from the record shall
be deemed to be destruction of the record.</span></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>
<b> </b> </span></span></span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="Penalty"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="notetext"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="paragraph"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p class="MsoNormal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span> </span></span></span></span></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-90419039504688929742022-07-27T12:20:00.004+10:002022-07-27T12:20:48.061+10:00End of road for attempt at special FOI protection for "National Cabinet"<p><span style="font-size: medium;"> Schedule 3 of the previous government's <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r6782" target="_blank">COAG Legislation Amendment Bill</a> is for the dustbin, as Attorney General Dreyfus made clear on <a href="https://ministers.ag.gov.au/media-centre/transcripts/abc-radio-national-law-report-28-06-2022" target="_blank">The Law Report</a> last month<br /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"></span></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;">" .. it's our view that the meetings of First Ministers are ones that, if
there is a need to provide protection from Freedom of Information
applications, then the exemptions in the Freedom of Information Act that
have been there since the first enactment of Freedom of Information in
Australia in 1982, which protect Commonwealth-state relations that those
exemptions are the ones which should be relied on. What we don't want
to see is the creation of unnecessary secrecy. What we don't want to see
is reliance on an exemption that applies to the meetings of Federal
Cabinet incorrectly applied to meetings between First Ministers of the
states, territories and the Commonwealth."</span></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Whether other mainly administrative provisions in other legislation concerning First Minister meetings are viewed necessary by the new government remains to be seen.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">Nothing so far to indicate they wish to change the misleading label.<br /></span></p><p></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-89112463037891994782022-07-27T10:52:00.002+10:002022-07-27T11:43:00.818+10:00<br /><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><br /></span></span></p><p><br /></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-61808800021981648522021-09-29T15:16:00.000+10:002021-09-29T15:16:00.513+10:00The COAG Legislation Amendment Bill likened to the Dog is a Cat Act<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">I was one of the witnesses at yesterday's Senate Committee <a href="https://bit.ly/39JLkiO" target="_blank">hearing</a> on the government's wrong headed, bizarre attempt to legislate that anything considered or decided by the 'National Cabinet' (the PM, state premiers, and territory first ministers) is not for any us to know unless the PM at his discretion decides to let it loose in the public domain.</span></span></p><div class="" dir="auto"><div class="ecm0bbzt hv4rvrfc ihqw7lf3 dati1w0a" data-ad-comet-preview="message" data-ad-preview="message" id="jsc_c_4z"><div class="j83agx80 cbu4d94t ew0dbk1b irj2b8pg"><div class="qzhwtbm6 knvmm38d"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="d2edcug0 hpfvmrgz qv66sw1b c1et5uql oi732d6d ik7dh3pa ht8s03o8 a8c37x1j keod5gw0 nxhoafnm aigsh9s9 d3f4x2em fe6kdd0r mau55g9w c8b282yb iv3no6db jq4qci2q a3bd9o3v b1v8xokw oo9gr5id hzawbc8m" dir="auto"><div class="kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">The contention in putting forward the <span class="d2edcug0 hpfvmrgz qv66sw1b c1et5uql oi732d6d ik7dh3pa ht8s03o8 a8c37x1j keod5gw0 nxhoafnm aigsh9s9 d3f4x2em fe6kdd0r mau55g9w c8b282yb iv3no6db jq4qci2q a3bd9o3v b1v8xokw oo9gr5id hzawbc8m" dir="auto"><a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r6782" target="_blank">COAG Legislation Amendment Bill 2021</a> (Schedule 3)</span> is that 'National Cabinet' is a committee of the Federal Cabinet and entitled to all the secrecy that goes with that. In addition to an amendment to the Freedom of Information Act in an attempt to achieve that purpose, having lost when <a href="https://foi-privacy.blogspot.com/2021/08/the-tribunal-gives-government-drubbing.html" target="_blank">Justice White</a> was not persuaded by the government's evidence, the bill would amend fourteen other acts. </div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">If it becomes law 'National Cabinet' documents-inputs, deliberations, decisions- would attract the (absolute, no public interest test) Cabinet Document exemption in the FOI act, be locked up and maybe released in 20-30 years time. <br /></div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">The government says the same should go for documents considered or concerning deliberations and decisions for any group consisting of any Tom Dick or Mary the PM designates as a subcommittee of the 'committee' known as 'National Cabinet'.<br /></div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">As one witness yesterday said it's like proposing a law that a dog is a cat. </div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">The bill-yet to be voted on-got a real pasting from everyone who testified, except the three public servants from the Prime Minister's department who tried in answer to questions to explain and justify this further backward step in transparency. </div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">From within the ranks, the Australian Human Rights Commission spoke up against and the Australian Information Commissioner in a submission supported by all eight state and territory counterparts said it was unnecessary.<br /></div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">Although government senators are in the majority on the Committee considering the legislation, only one the Chair, turned up, leaving open slather to Senators Ayres (NSW ALP), Rex Patrick (Independent SA) and Larissa Waters (Greens Qld). They had a field day getting plenty of confirmation the legislation proposed is a dangerous dud, and leaving those three public servants perplexed and pained in trying to justify it.</div><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">Most of those following this closely are doubtful it will pass the Senate where the government will need two crossbenchers to vote with them to get it through. Make that three-one government senator today said he would cross the floor to vote against.</div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;"> </div></div><div class="o9v6fnle cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q"><div dir="auto" style="text-align: start;">I'd worry about any senators who see more secrecy as just what our democracy needs these days and suggest they should be tested for cognitive decline.</div></div></span></span></span></div></div></div></div>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-4418184526146490812021-08-10T11:17:00.004+10:002021-09-16T11:21:09.898+10:00The Tribunal gives Government a drubbing: "National Cabinet is no cabinet committee "<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The <a href="http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/AATA//2021/2719.html" target="_blank">decision</a> in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal by Justice White rejecting arguments that documents concerning the operation of the "National Cabinet' are exempt as cabinet documents cheered up those among us who keep lamenting the decline in transparency.</span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span style="font-family: arial;">Thanks to Senator Rex Patrick, something</span></span> to cheer about, the first in a long time for years.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXGcZgeyhQf2VZKoHbgV9NcXADdJH6-fYDlD9NxOBTmQ-ekMlc4JEpaolfYSHpWmUQ13bqyIEVAsAmRyHj3ypgavBNvMg_gXWZtctubYzQP1EPVEcQyX13bFbJw9oyDcgk8DQq/s202/image.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="202" data-original-width="150" height="202" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgXGcZgeyhQf2VZKoHbgV9NcXADdJH6-fYDlD9NxOBTmQ-ekMlc4JEpaolfYSHpWmUQ13bqyIEVAsAmRyHj3ypgavBNvMg_gXWZtctubYzQP1EPVEcQyX13bFbJw9oyDcgk8DQq/s0/image.jpg" width="150" /></a></span></div><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: medium;">The matter took a year to get to this stage (speedy compared to delays some of us are enduring in a queue at the Office of Australian Information Commissioner) and it may not be over yet. The Secretary of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet is considering an appeal to the Federal Court.</span></span><p></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">There's no reason to think the Australian Government Solicitor who ran the case for exemption didn't put their best case forward, or were rushed and caught off guard in marshaling evidence in support, but it fell way short.</span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> I <a href="https://foi-privacy.blogspot.com/2020/06/a-reose-by-any-name-is-national-cabinet.html" target="_blank">canvassed </a>some of the problems the Government faced last year. </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span style="font-family: arial;">By the look of it</span></span> AGS didn't have much to play with in addressing them before the AAT.<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>Decision</b><br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">On the cabinet exemption issue Justice White concluded</span></span></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Having
addressed several matters bearing on the question of whether the National
Cabinet is a committee of the Cabinet, I have then
sought to consider their
collective effect. In my view, taken together they point persuasively against
the National Cabinet being
a committee of the Cabinet within the meaning of the
statutory expression. At the very least, I am satisfied that the respondent
has
not discharged the onus of establishing that Mr Hupalo’s decisions about
these matters were justified or that the Tribunal
should give a decision which
is adverse to the applicant. [210} </span></span></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Professor Anne Twomey has a good piece on <a href="https://theconversation.com/nowhere-to-hide-the-significance-of-national-cabinet-not-being-a-cabinet-165671" target="_blank">The Conversation</a> about the decision and its consequences. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>The evidence and contentions</b></span></span> <br /></span></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">In his decision Justice White was measured but scathing in observations about the
evidence put forward and the contentions on behalf of the Secretary
of the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet in arguing the case for a
finding the documents were exempt. <br /></span></span><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">It's a real drubbing, both on the cabinet document claim and a claim made for the first time when the matter reached the AAT that disclosure of minutes of a meeting in March 2020 would damage relations with the states.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Not for the faint hearted, but here's (a selection of) what Justice White said about the case put for the cabinet document claim (<b>emphasis added</b>):</span></span></p><a name='more'></a><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span><p></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>the proposition</b> "that any committee may be a “committee
of the Cabinet” for the purposes of the
FOI Act merely because the Prime
Minister of the day has purported to establish it as such.. <b>is
unsound...in any event...
the evidence does not support</b> a conclusion
that the Prime Minister
“established” the National Cabinet.[68] </span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> It
is <b>unfortunate that the evidence </b>which the parties and, in particular the
respondent, have provided as to the establishment of
the National Cabinet <b>is
secondary in nature, when primary evidence must be available </b>[84]. </span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>The
evidence</b> in this case <b>did not meet the standard </b>suggested by (the)
authorities [86]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">On
the evidence provided, <b>I am not willing to accept Ms McGregor’s evidence</b>
insofar as it suggests that the National Cabinet
was established <i>after</i>
the COAG meeting. <b>That assertion is not supported by any other evidence and is
inconsistent</b> with the inferences naturally arising
from the agreed facts. Nor
am I willing to accept the respondent’s evidence, given its identified
shortcomings and given its
inconsistency with the weight of the other evidence.[87]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">... the selection of the members of the National
Cabinet is not at the discretion of the Prime Minister. <b>Nor is there
any
evidence</b> that the Prime Minister “appoints” persons as members of
the National Cabinet{92]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> The
implication in the evidence and the submission seemed to be that the term
“committee of the Cabinet” should be construed
in the light of this
historical experience. However, apart from any other consideration, <b>the
respondent’s submission breaks
down at the evidential level</b>.[98]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">It
follows that <b>I reject the evidence of Ms McGregor </b>and the respondent about these
matters. As indicated earlier, the context in
which the FOI Act was enacted
seems to have been that Cabinet committees would be comprised of members of the
Cabinet or at least
of the outer Ministry.[103]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">However, as indicated,
<b>the evidence does not provide a single example</b> of a
cabinet committee whose membership comprised persons who were not Ministers in
the Government of the day, let alone not members of the Australian Parliament.
More pertinently to the present case, <b>it does not
provide evidence of a single
instance </b>of a committee of the Cabinet comprised substantially of persons who
are not even members of
the Australian Parliament. The characterisation of such
a committee as a committee of the Cabinet would be <b>inconsistent with entrenched
conventions of responsible government</b>, including that the Cabinet is comprised
of Ministers who are responsible and answerable to
the Parliament.[107]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> I regard the issue raised by this submission as a<b> diversion which it
is not necessary to address in detail.
I indicate, however, that I do not
regard the submission as meritorious. It is a logical fallacy </b>to suppose that
the occurrence
for the first time of an event in political or governmental life
is an indication that there has hitherto been a convention (in the
sense of an
acknowledged norm) that it should not, or may not, happen.[108]. </span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Counsel’s submission
<b>involved therefore a form of “boot straps”
or circular reasoning</b>.
There is, in any event, no evidence that the Prime Minister could decide
unilaterally that one or more Premiers
or Chief Ministers would no longer be a
member of the National Cabinet. In fact, Ms McGregor’s evidence (again
secondary in
nature) seems to be to the contrary as she deposed in [33] that
“the precise structure, shape and operation of the National
Cabinet are
matters for its members [115].</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">In the case of the Cabinet, the Handbook
specifies that it is the Prime Minister
of the day who determines its “shape, structure and operation”,
whereas Ms McGregor
deposed that the “precise structure, shape and
operation of the National Cabinet” are matters for its members. S<b>he
seemed
thereby to draw a significant distinction between it and the
Cabinet</b>.[117]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">It seems reasonable to infer that the other Premiers and Chief Ministers may also
delegate another Minister to represent their State
or Territory, as the case may
be, in the National Cabinet. There is <b>no primary evidence</b> indicating that they
may do so only with
the permission of the Prime Minister or that the nomination
of a delegate by a Premier or a Chief Minister to the National Cabinet
is
subject to some form of ratification, approval or veto by the Prime Minister.
Given the character and purpose of the National
Cabinet, the existence of such a
requirement seems improbable. In fact, it is probable that the Premiers and
Chief Ministers would
be surprised to hear that their membership of the National
Cabinet is entirely at the discretion of the Prime Minister and that,
to use the
expression of counsel for the respondent, it is the Prime Minister’s
“gift”[119].</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>The
logic of the syllogism implicit in this submission does not need to be
addressed. As will be seen, the evidence does not in any
event support </b>a
conclusion that the role of the National Cabinet is to assist the Federal
Cabinet, let alone that that is its entire
function and purpose. In fact, the
evidence that it exists to assist the Federal Cabinet to make appropriate
decisions is scant.[122]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">However,
it is appropriate to note first that, with few exceptions, <b>none of the public
statements of the Prime Minister in evidence
concerning the National Cabinet
contain any explicit reference to it having some inter-relationship with the
Federal Cabinet or that
its function is to assist that Cabinet to make
appropriate decisions</b> [13<i>0</i><i>]</i><b><i> </i></b></span></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The
Tribunal has <b>not been provided with any primary evidence</b> indicating how it was
that the National Cabinet had been “established
formally” under the
Commonwealth Government’s cabinet guidelines, evidencing such
establishment or indicating the basis
upon which the Prime Minister asserted
that it has “the status of a meeting of the Cabinet that would exist at
Federal level”.
On one view, the statement of the Prime Minister may be
no more than a statement of his belief, and not a statement of fact.
Alternatively,
the statement may indicate no more than that it had been agreed
that the National Cabinet was to operate in accordance with the Cabinet
guidelines. In this respect, it may be pertinent that the Prime Minister did
not say that the National Cabinet was a committee of
the Cabinet, or that it
operated under the Cabinet, or even that it stood in any particular relationship
with the Cabinet [132]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">As
is apparent, in these statements the Prime Minister seemed to emphasise that the
decisions of the National Cabinet (which were
announced publically) <b>were not
decisions of the Federal Cabinet, and were made independently of it, with the
implication that the
Federal Cabinet did not have responsibility for them.</b>
Further the Prime Minister conveyed that it was for the States and Territories
to implement the decisions and not the Commonwealth. Thus, the Prime Minister
distinguished between the National Cabinet and the
Federal Cabinet in a way
which did not suggest that the National Cabinet was a committee of the
Cabinet [135].</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">In
his affidavit, the (Secretary Gaetjens) deposed that the National Cabinet had agreed at
the meeting on 29 May 2020 that it would replace
COAG as the peak
intergovernmental body. Without reference to the minutes themselves, I would
regard it as improbable that the National
Cabinet as “the peak
intergovernmental body”, and with the status of such a body, intended that
it be a committee of
the Cabinet of one governmental entity and, implicitly,
subordinate to it. In the interests of not disclosing for the time being
anything concerning the content of the minutes of the meeting of 29 May 2020
with respect to the agreement which the respondent attributed
to the National
Cabinet. I will not detail <b>my conclusion that the respondent’s evidence is
not supported by the documents</b>.[141<b><i><b><i><b><i>]</i></b></i></b></i></b></span></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The following
conclusions are appropriate on the evidence concerning
the relationship of the
National Cabinet and the Cabinet: [149]</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(a) unlike the Cabinet (and, it
may be inferred, Cabinet committees), the Prime Minister does not determine the
shape, structure and
operation of the National Cabinet – cf [2] of the
Handbook. <b>There is no evidence at all</b> of the Cabinet, or even the Prime
Minister, delegating to, or entrusting the National Cabinet with, any particular
function, or even requesting that it provide assistance
to the Cabinet;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(b) the National Cabinet does not derive powers from the Cabinet – cf
[5] of the Handbook. At the least, <b>there is no evidence
that it does</b> so;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(c) decisions of the National Cabinet are not taken to the Cabinet for
endorsement – cf [5] of the Handbook. Again, <b>there is
no evidence that
this occurs</b>; </span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(d) the Cabinet does not retain the ultimate power of decision over matters
decided at the National Cabinet – cf [5] of the
Handbook. <b>The Prime
Minister’s public statements concerning the nature of the decisions of the
National Cabinet is inconsistent
with the Cabinet having this power</b>;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(e) decisions of the National Cabinet may be, and are, acted upon by the
States and Territories without being endorsed by Cabinet
– cf [5] of the
Handbook;</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
(f) <b>there is no evidence</b> that the Cabinet is briefed on the decisions of the
National Cabinet – cf [5] of the Handbook. There
is not even evidence
that copies of the minutes of the National Cabinet are provided to the Cabinet;
</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(g) the Prime Minister is not responsible for the membership of the National
Cabinet – cf [6] of the Handbook;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(h) <b>there is no evidence</b> that the Cabinet may alter a decision of the
National Cabinet or ask it to consider a matter further –
cf [5] of the
Handbook;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(i) decisions of the National Cabinet are not equivalent to, and do not have
effect as, decisions of the Cabinet;</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(j) the National Cabinet has addressed matters over which the Commonwealth
Government had no, or only indirect, legislative authority
or responsibility;
and</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(k) a principal focus of the National Cabinet has been that of promoting the
maximum possible coordination and consistency of approach
in addressing
COVID‑19 in particular.</span></span></p></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>The
evidence</b> concerning the National Cabinet being established as a Cabinet Office
Policy Committee <b>is unfortunately scant</b>[ 150].</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">While
I accept that <b>confidentiality does attach to the National Cabinet deliberations,
I do not regard it as a particularly strong
indicator that it is a Cabinet
committee</b>. [173].</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i> </i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i>The
Tribunal invited counsel for the respondent to identify the evidence</b> indicating
that the National Cabinet had operated on the
basis of a requirement for 100
percent consensus for its decisions before 4 September 2020 <b>but counsel did not
do so<i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i> </i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i>[184]</i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></span></span></p></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The
evidence indicates, however, that, while National Cabinet has sought to achieve
consistency in the measures to control COVID-19
and its effects and coordination
of the various activities of the States and Territories directed to that end,
the States and Territories
did not at the relevant times in fact operate wholly
in accordance with the principles of collective responsibility and cabinet
solidarity.
In particular, <b>it is evident that members of the National Cabinet
did not regard themselves as bound to support decisions made at
the National
Cabinet irrespective of their own views</b>, and that at times they acted in ways
which were inconsistent with the National
Cabinet decisions. <b> Further, there is
no evidence of attempts to enforce solidarity amongst members of the National
Cabinet[</b>190]</span></span></blockquote><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">In
my view, the attempt by the respondent to have the Tribunal rely, in relation to
the question of whether the National Cabinet is
a committee of the Cabinet, on
statements in the authorities concerning the value of statements of
“responsible representatives”
in the evaluation of claims for public
interest immunity <b>is misplaced</b>. Specifically, I am not satisfied, with due
respect to the
respondent and Ms McGregor, that either has a relevant expertise
or experience which can assist the Tribunal in the determination
of this
question[208]</span></span></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;">........................................ <br /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Ouch.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">We probably won't know
for 20 years or so about any advice, legal or
otherwise, around the time of the establishment of 'National Cabinet'
and recommendations at that time about what if anything should be done to buttress
the claim that its establishment and procedures would guarantee
confidentiality for inputs, deliberations and decisions.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">You are left to
wonder where the idea came from.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Possibly that the Prime
Minister with his <i>penchant</i> for secrecy and usual self confidence simply pulled this out of the hat-inevitably to face reality down the track.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">............................ </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i><b><i> </i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></i></b></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span></p><span style="font-size: medium;"> </span><span style="font-size: medium;"> <br /></span><span style="font-size: medium;"> </span><p><span style="font-size: medium;"> </span><br /></p><p></p> <p></p> <p></p> <p></p> <p></p> <p></p><p></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-57526257923878857852021-05-13T15:28:00.003+10:002021-09-16T11:24:38.013+10:00Diary of a despondent: an FOI journey to nowhere (so far)<p><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: medium;">Almost a year ago the Minister for Foreign Affairs Senator Payne drew attention in speeches to two matters of significance in Australia's international affairs-an audit report completed by the Department of Foreign Affairs at the request of the Prime Minister on Australia's engagement with multilateral institutions, and what the Minister described as the important role Australia played since assuming a position on the governing board in advocating for greater independence and transparency at the World Health Organisation.<br /></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial; font-size: medium;">Hmm, important stuff, I thought.</span><span style="font-size: medium;"><br /></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>FOI application </b> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Wanting to know more about both I made separate FOI applications for documents on 18 June to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">A year later after tortuous drawn out processes in both cases I've got nothing to show. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT's decisions have been with the Office of Australian Information Commissioner since 13 November seeking review of the knock backs received as well as a response to a complaint about the department's handling of these, and presumably other FOI applications.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The blow by blow details are in the public domain on the Right to Know website <a href="https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/the_audit_report_of_multilateral#comment-2862" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="https://www.righttoknow.org.au/request/australian_advocacy_for_transpar#incoming-20028" target="_blank">here</a>. </span></span></p><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Below is a potted summary of the pursuit of the Audit report-a tale of delay, long silences and obfuscation stretching from June to November. </span></span></p><p class="subsection"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">It's a far cry from Parliament's <a href="http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/foia1982222/s3.html" target="_blank">intention</a>s that the FOI act promote Australia's
representative democracy by contributing towards increasing scrutiny, discussion, comment and review of the
Government's activities, increasing
recognition that information held by the Government is to be managed for
public purposes, and is a national resource, and that functions and powers given by this
Act are to be performed and exercised, as far as possible, to facilitate and
promote public access to information, promptly and at the lowest reasonable
cost.
</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> <b>18 June 2020</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">FOI application lodged for a copy of the audit report on Australia's engagement in key
multilateral institutions mentioned and summarised in the <a href="Audit report matter " target="_blank">speech </a>by the
Minister to the National Security College on 16 June.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>24 June</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT acknowledgement (<i>emphasis</i> added here and elsewhere):<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"<i>Searches are now being undertaken in relevant areas of the Department for documents relevant to your request."</i>"You should.. expect a decision from us by 20 July 2020. The period of 30 days may be extended in certain circumstances." "..the Department issues charges for processing FOI requests." It is the Department’s policy to withhold ... the names and contact details of government
officials not in the Senior Executive Service (SES) If we don't hear from you "we will take it that you agree to that information being excluded from the scope of your request."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>26 June</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My response: Guidance from OAIC makes clear, the imposition of a charge is at the discretion of the agency. There is no obligation to charge. In the middle of a pandemic surely simple is better than complex. "In my submission, a charge for processing an application for one clearly
identified document is not warranted." On names, the Department's policy is inconsistent
with Guidance issued by the Australian Information Commissioner (6.154)
<br />"When considering whether it would be unreasonable to disclose the
names of public servants, there is no basis under the FOI Act for
agencies to start from the position that the classification level of a
departmental officer determines whether his or her name would be
unreasonable to disclose."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>7 July</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT makes no reference to either point raised and imposes a charge of $108.67 with the full amount or a deposit payable in advance. <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>9 July</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My response notes no mention of matters raised on 26 June, and that the charges for processing the application are not broken down into how they will spend time in dealing with the application. Presumably little if any
time is involved in searching for and identifying the one document
requested. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Still arguing DFAT has a discretion not to charge and why in difficult Pandemic times not charging is likely to save time and resources of both of us, I pick up on their mention of waiving or reducing charges on financial hardship or public interest grounds. As a self funded retiree my super and savings have taken a hammering I say, but no
worse than many or most and I won’t make a special case out of that. On the public interest, what the Minister said in that speech that prompted the application made multilateral engagement a very important aspect of protecting and advancing Australia's interests. The minister said on 18 June it's about using "..Australian influence and agency to
shape a safer world, and to make us safer at home."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Access to the report is in the public interest because it will help inform the community of the Government’s conduct of this important aspect of international
affairs, contribute to debate on a matters of public importance, and enable
scrutiny of performance in the achievement of government policies and
goals. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>5 August</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Nothing from DFAT.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">I query what is going on?</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>11 August </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT responds on charges, accepting 'this matter may be of some public interest. However I am not satisfied the giving of access to the specific document in question would be in the general public interest,nor of interest to a substantial section of the public." </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Followed by a lecture:"Charges are a vital component to the FOI process that make it sustainable and appropriately balanced from a public policy perspective. Significant public resources are engaged in processing non-personal FOI requests. Processing charges are designed to ensure that the Australian community recoups a proportion of the costs of processing these types of FOI requests, given that processing such requests diverts significant resources from policy areas away from other priorities." </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">But yes, DFAT reduces charges by 50% to $54.33.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>18 August</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My reply: "Gee, I'm sorely tempted to seek a review, given the reasoning provided, but in the interests of time, I'll pay up.Your message does not mention how to go about this. Nor does the website.Please inform.Thanks."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>18 August</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT quick to respond: "Please see attached available payment methods."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>19 August</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Paid full amount rather than the $20 deposit by direct debit.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>27 August</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT asks my consent to an extension of time of 30 days to process the
request. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><i>Searches"have been undertaken.. material falling within the request is currently under consideration</i>" but "the
department will be unable to finalise the request within the statutory
timeframe." </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">No reasons given</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>28 August </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My reply:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"I understand its a difficult time all round but even in these trying
circumstances, an additional 30 days to process the application seems
unreasonable and unwarranted.You have had this application since 18 June-70 days, 50 if we are
more generous than the FOI act and exclude weekends from the equation...The request is for access to one document, clearly described by title
and publicly referred to in that way by the Minister, so it is
reassuring that 'the searches in relation to the request have been
undertaken"and that "the material falling within the request (ie one
document) is currently under consideration." I can't see how this might
render the request complex or voluminous. I'm hoping for a decision any
day now. I do not agree to any extension."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>31 August</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT advise they have asked OAIC for a thirty day extension.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>15 September</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My message to DFAT "Can you let me know where things stand?
Nothing heard from OAIC about your application so I'm thinking an extension was not granted? Deemed refusal?
Refund the charges paid?"</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>18 September </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">OAIC write to tell me the DFAT application for extension of time has not been granted-"not satisfied an extension of time is appropriate in this circumstance... The effect of this decision is that the Department is deemed to have refused your FOI request...the Department continues to have an obligation to provide a statement of reasons on the FOI request...the agency or minister cannot impose a charge for providing access, even if the applicant was earlier notified that a charge was payable (regs 7(2), (3)). Any deposit you have paid should be refunded."<br /><br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>29 September</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Nothing heard from DFAT but my follow up query met with a same day response <br />"Thank you for your email and your continued patience.....complete the attached form for refund and return it at your earliest convenience. I otherwise confirm <i>we are working to finalise this matter at the earliest opportunity."</i></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My same day response to the response points out that the form says don't use it if you don't have an ABN. Instead use the “Statement by supplier form. I don't have an ABN.
The link doesn't take me anywhere.
A search turns up an ATO form and quite a few others. Phew-what a process."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>1 October</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT "Apologies, statement by supplier form now attached."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>2 October</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Completed 'Statement by Supplier 'form sent together with a few comments to DFAT: <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"Gee its hard to keep a straight face- and not weep- at the
complications in the processing of the application that have arisen to
date...I'm no expert on the GST, but how an FOI applicant entitled to get
charges back transforms into a suppler providing a supply in
the form of goods or services to your business (read explanation in
Fact Sheet) is a real mystery...
The form supplied can't easily be filled on line and comes without
a way to automatically return it to you. I took a photo. (Please don't
tell me you need the original-by snail mail! </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT reply same day, confirm receipt of the form and will now arrange refund of the charges.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"<i>We otherwise confirm are working to finalise this matter at the earliest opportunity</i>.Thank you for your continued patience."</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>16 October </b> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT: "In order to process the refund, we need your bank account details to
make the deposit. Grateful if you could please provide the same at your
convenience and I will continue to process the refund. Again, my apologies that the processing of this refund is again delayed. I otherwise confirm <i>we will provide you with an outcome to your request shortly</i></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Details sent same day.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>21 October </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Nothing from DFAT-my query, can you confirm receipt?</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>22 October </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT-no we didn't receive bank details. <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Same day, I resend. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(Money paid into my account on 6 November)<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>5 November </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Nothing heard from DFAT- I say time to pass to OAIC for a review of the decision DFAT hasn't made </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>6 November</b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT reply:<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"Unfortunately Danielle has been out of the office this week.<i>We are continuing to work on your FOI request for you.</i></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> Regards</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT FOI Team"</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>13 November </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Still nothing from DFAT. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">My message:<b> </b> </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"I think I've shown understanding in difficult times but there are limits.
An application for IC Review has been lodged today. And a heads up, I'll be lodging a complaint about the handling of the current two applications." </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>30 November </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT advise of decision on my application for the report after months of searching, considering..</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The report is exempt in its entirety-cabinet document, release would damage international relations and national security. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">No reasons beyond broad general assertions. All conveyed in a tad over one page. Have to wonder what those months of 'consideration' of the application involved.<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>3 May </b></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The OAIC contacted me about the review application that I lodged on 13 November telling me the matter is awaiting further consideration by a review
adviser and this may
take up to 12 months and then the review adviser will review
any documentation or submissions provided by Department<b><b>
</b></b>in support of its decision of 30 November 2020. <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">..................................... <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Intrigued by what this exercise might have cost the taxpayer, I made another application to DFAT on 7 December for the details of time spent and the dollar amount attributed to dealing with my request.<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">DFAT was at the ready for months arguing why i should pay for time spent so presumably someone somewhere was keeping tabs, but remarkably the agency says it does not hold any such documents.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">.....................</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: medium;">Still living in hope! </span><br /></span></span></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-55265508146367058192021-04-19T17:36:00.003+10:002021-05-11T14:22:51.918+10:00 Neither open nor ambitious when it comes to Australia's open government plans <p>Having spent time and energy, <a href="https://foi-privacy.blogspot.com/2011/09/australia-missing-from-open-government.html" target="_blank">commencing</a> in 2011when the initiative was first announced, in encouraging, advocating and participating in Australian involvement in the <a href="https://www.opengovpartnership.org/" target="_blank">Open Government Partnership</a>, my optimism and enthusiasm for the cause has taken a nose dive in recent times. </p><p>I'm glad a small cohort of determined supporters of democratic principles hang in there.</p><p>But with no champions at the highest levels of a government that some suggest is <a href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9460115/Scott-Morrison-roasted-scrapping-Covid-vaccination-target.html" target="_blank">allergic to transparency</a> our <a href="https://ogpau.pmc.gov.au/" target="_blank">commitments to reform</a> have been mediocre in ambition, modest at best in terms of results, limited in reaching out to raise awareness and extend participation beyond usual suspects (no offence intended), and opaque when it comes to what is going on behind the scenes.<br /></p><p>On the last mentioned:</p><p>The Open Government Forum "Australia's multi-stakeholder forum" comprised of members from government and civil society hasn't met for five, almost six months- since November.<br /></p><p><span class="im"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">The minutes of the last meeting on 27 November 2020 are yet to be published.<b> </b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b>(Update </b>Sometime after I asked PMC about the minutes on 7 April they appeared in the meeting papers on the PMC website available <a href="https://ogpau.pmc.gov.au/open-government-forum/meetings/open-government-forum-meeting-27-november-2020" target="_blank">here</a>)<br /></p><p class="MsoNormal">A document in <a href="https://ogpau.pmc.gov.au/open-government-forum/meetings/open-government-forum-meeting-27-november-2020" target="_blank">published papers</a> for that meeting refers to a <span class="im">planned Forum meeting
on 18 February 2021 for 'Formal Close out of NAP 3 Development Process."The meeting wasn't held then, or since apparently. Presumably the Forum is yet to formally 'close out.'<br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="im">The process to develop a third national action plan commenced in November 2019 with a requirement at that stage that the completed plan would be submitted to the OGP in August 2020. The Pandemic saw the due date extended to 28 February 2021. PMC tell me the plan is yet to be submitted because the government has not formally considered and endorsed it. (And of course the Forum hasn't closed out yet on what the government will later consider. The draft commitments as they stood in November-Item 5 in <a href="https://ogpau.pmc.gov.au/open-government-forum/meetings/open-government-forum-meeting-27-november-2020" target="_blank">this list</a>-bear little resemblance to what most commentators and experts regard as priorities in addressing the current retreat from accountability and transparency)<br /></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="im">Then Minister Cormann was the 'co-ordinating minister' for Australia's OGP commitments and the development, adoption and implementation commencing with the first national action plan in 2016-2018 but if he spoke publicly about the OGP during the ensuing five years apart from a short attendance at a meeting in Paris some years back, I must have missed it. He resigned from the ministry on 30 October 2020. You'll struggle to find any mention of who took his place but PMC advise its </span><span class="im"><span class="im">Assistant Minister Ben Morton- who hasn't spoken a word about it either that I can find. A<a href="https://ministers.pmc.gov.au/morton/2021/speech-aps-state-service-roadshow" target="_blank"> speech </a>to the Australian Public Service </span></span><span class="im"><span class="im"><span class="im"><span class="im">by the Assistant Minister</span></span> in February 2021 includes a section headed </span></span><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;">"The Government's ambition Inspiring Australians to engage in democracy" but not a word about open government, the OGP, anything the government might claim as reforms past or planned.<br /></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="im"><span class="im">In early 2019, then Civil Society Co-Chair of the Forum Fiona Mcleod SC (Chair of Accountability Roundtable) and a candidate in the Federal election held at that time stood down. While the position has been capably filled on an interim basis by Adjunct Professor Ken Coghill, no replacement for Ms McLeod has been announced for over two years. </span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="im"><span class="im">The OGP requires <a href="https://www.opengovpartnership.org/people/independent-reporting-mechanism-irm/">independent assessment</a> of</span></span><span class="im"><span class="im"> the design and implementation of the commitments adopted by OGP participating governments in their country action plans. <a href="https://www.opengovpartnership.org/members/australia/" target="_blank">Three reports</a> have been published on Australian plans, way too late to have much impact. None give Australia much in the way of commendation, no commitments qualify as ambitious. None are published on the PMC website. The government is also required to publish a midterm and closing report on each plan. The most recent <a href="https://ogpau.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/files/midterm_self-assessment_report_for_australias_first_open_government_national_action_plan_2016-18.pdf" target="_blank">self assessment</a> (pdf) published on the PMC website is at mid term of the 2016-2018 plan.</span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="im"><span class="im">Along this ten year journey I've often concluded that when it comes to high standards and practices regarding accountability, transparency and integrity, I live in hope but on form to date the Morrison government makes hope look futile. <br /></span></span></p><div class="yj6qo ajU"><div aria-expanded="false" aria-label="Show trimmed content" class="ajR" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" id=":sz" role="button" tabindex="0"><img class="ajT" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif" /></div></div>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-26562187351967227792021-02-05T15:13:00.004+11:002021-02-05T15:13:52.920+11:00Senator Patrick chalks up important FOI win<p><span style="font-family: arial;">He''s a vigilant determined defender of the spirit and intent of freedom of information.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;">May the wind be at his back! <br /></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;">In the Senate on Tuesday </span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Senator Rex Patrick</span> recounted a drawn out and eventually unsuccessful attempt by the Department of Prime Minister to deny access to the complete performance audit report into the handling of a $1.3 billion dollar Defence contract for the procurement of the Hawkei light protected mobility vehicle from Thales Australia Ltd. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;">The government had refused to table the complete report in response to a Senate Order; Attorney General Porter issued a (rare?unprecedented?) certificate under the Auditor General's Act preventing disclosure of parts<span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 803.291px; transform: scaleX(0.984766);"> <span style="font-size: small;">of the report</span> <span style="font-size: small;">on </span></span><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">public interest grounds; and various FOI exemption claims, some dropped on the way, were advanced on this journey to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. <br /></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">Deputy President Britten-Jones</span></span></span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;"> <a href="http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/AATA/2020/4964.html" target="_blank">concluded</a> no additional harm to national security or Thales commercial interests would result from disclosure, </span></span></span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">given information already in the public domain in a redacted version of the report, and information </span></span></span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">made available by Thales when it
commenced Federal Court proceedings in January 2018. </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">The Deputy President[ 70-78] was dismissive of another claim that the Auditor General's analysis and conclusions involved deliberative processes:</span></span></span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;"> "</span></span></span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">Rather than disclosing a deliberative process, the Redacted Report
discloses a final conclusion based on an analysis
of factual findings.....Section
47C does not operate to disallow access to a report of this nature generated by
an independent officer of the Parliament exercising
his statutory functions.
The Disputed Material is not conditionally exempt under s 47C(1) of the FOI
Act."</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;">Senator Patrick <a href="https://www.rexpatrick.com.au/attorney-general_must_explain_national_security_error_to_parliament" target="_blank">posted</a> the report and relevant documentation following notification the decision will not be appealed, observing<span> <br /></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span>"In this matter the Attorney-General’s judgement was clearly
unsound. He was incapable of properly assessing national security
claims </span></span><span>This raises a most serious question - what else has the Attorney-General got wrong in the national security space?”</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span>Indeed. <br /></span></span></span></p>
<p><span></span><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;"> <b>Senator Patrick in the Senate 2 February<br /></b></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="font-size: 20.21px; left: 293.136px; top: 830.237px; transform: scaleX(1.04358);"><span style="font-size: small;"><b><span></span></b></span></span></span></p><a name='more'></a><span style="font-size: small;"><b> </b></span>Before I commence my adjournment speech, I seek leave to table Auditor-General's report No. 6 of 2018-19, <i>Army's protected mobility vehicle—light</i>, a confidential report issued under section 37 of the Auditor-General Act that has now been released under FOI.<p></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">Leave granted.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">For
the first time the parliament is now able to see the material that was
prepared for parliament by the Auditor-General but was then subsequently
censored by the Attorney-General using a never-before-used power under
section 37 of the Auditor-General's Act. I obtained it under <span class="hi">freedom of information</span> laws after the AAT found that there was nothing sensitive in it and ordered the Prime Minister to hand it to me.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">I
want to give some context here, some background. On 11 March 2017 the
Auditor-General commenced a performance audit into the procurement of
the Hawkei light protected mobility vehicle from Thales Australia Ltd by
the Department of Defence.
By about December 2017, so some seven or eight months later, the
Auditor-General held a draft report substantially in the form in which
he intended to table it in the parliament. Both Thales and Defence were
aware of the content of the draft report as it stood at that time.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">On
5 January 2018 Thales applied to the Attorney-General for a certificate
under paragraph 37(1)(b) of the Auditor-General's Act in respect of
certain contents in the draft report on the basis that the publication
of this content would be contrary to the public interest because it
would unfairly prejudice Thales's commercial interests. It took some
time, so the parliament was then delayed having access to any audit.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">On
28 June 2018 the Attorney-General issued a certificate under section 37
of the act which stated that, in his opinion, 'inclusion of certain
information contained in the public report would be contrary to the
public interest for one of both of the following reasons: it would
prejudice the security, defence or international relations of the
Commonwealth and it would unfairly prejudice the commercial interests of
any body or person'. So there was a claim being made by the
Attorney-General that the information that the Auditor had prepared was
in actual fact national security sensitive and commercially sensitive.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">On 11 September 2018 a redacted report was published by the Australian National Audit Office.
On 6 September, so just prior to that point, the Auditor-General
actually sent a confidential version of what I will call the public
report to the Prime Minister's Office.
Because of the unusual exercise of the power the JCPAA conducted an
inquiry into the censoring. Report No. 478 of the JCPAA is a report
entitled 'Issuing of a Certificate under Section 37 of the
Auditor-General's Act 1997'.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">In that inquiry the Auditor-General made a submission which is highly instructive. In amongst that submission he said:</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p class="italic"><span style="font-family: arial;">Much of the information required to be omitted from the audit report to Parliament was analysis by the ANAO.
Further, the required omissions reached into the Auditor‐General's
audit conclusion relating to the audit objective, which was to assess
the effectiveness and value for money of this acquisition.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">So a
primary focus of the Auditor-General is: do our procurements achieve
value for money? And he was being prohibited from providing his views to
the parliament. He also said:</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p class="italic"><span style="font-family: arial;">The Auditor‐General
remains of the view that the public interest was clearly balanced in
favour of disclosure of his full audit conclusion and the ANAO analysis,
on the basis that the Parliament, the Executive and the public would
reasonably expect to be informed as to whether Defence conducted an
effective procurement process. Further, the Auditor‐General has not
received any information which would suggest the particular information
the subject of the certificate could otherwise be withheld from the
Parliament on the basis of a claim of public interest immunity.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">So there you have it: the very experienced Auditor-General making it very clear that what was in his report was not sensitive.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">Now,
that might well have been the end of it except that I was disturbed by
this censoring and I sought the report under FOI. The government fought
tooth and nail to prevent me having access to this. The first claim was
that the PM's
office was performing an Auditor-General's function, and therefore the
document couldn't be obtained under FOI. Somehow the Prime Minister
thinks that the Auditor-General resides in his office. The second
attempt was by the Prime Minister's barristers to claim that it involved
complex constitutional issues and issues of parliamentary privilege.
And then finally we got down to, 'Does it have national security or
commercial issues associated with its disclosure?'</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">It's
interesting that during the proceedings, barristers for the Prime
Minister submitted this. I'll read this; it's one of the most incredible
things I've ever seen in an FOI argument, 'The respondent says that the
publicly available information cannot be disclosed because it is
inexorably interwoven with the analysis that the respondent claims is
exempt from disclosure.' And, 'Disclosing the publicly available
information in the context in which it appears in the report will
inferentially disclose much of the substance of what the respondent
seeks to protect by its exemption claims.' We have a barrister for the
Commonwealth arguing that the Commonwealth shouldn't be required to
disclose publicly available information. The AAT found that it was
neither national security sensitive nor commercially sensitive.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">Let's
have a look at what was considered sensitive. Just looking at some of
the information on page 6 of the report that I've tabled, it says,
'Defence has not clearly demonstrated that the acquisition provides
value for money as it did not undertake robust benchmarking in the
context of a sole source procurement.' That's the Auditor-General saying
that if you do a sole source contract—so you go only to one player—you
must, as a matter of good practice, go and see if you can establish
whether the price is reasonable that you are being charged by the person
who is the recipient of that sole source contract. Somehow that
statement was considered by the Attorney-General as national security
sensitive. It wasn't national security sensitive, it was embarrassing
for the Department of Defence. It wasn't commercially sensitive, it was
embarrassing for the Department of Defence.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">Again, 'Publicly available information suggests that the non-audited per unit price difference between the Hawkeye and the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle
exceeds the price difference advised to the government at second pass.'
The Auditor-General is saying that Defence misinformed the minister.
Somehow that is national security sensitive and somehow that is
commercially sensitive. We have a vehicle cost comparison that was
conducted by the Auditor-General that is basically considered to be
confidential, even though the analysis was done by officials in the
Auditor-General's office using publicly available information.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">Two
things come from this. Firstly, this goes to the Attorney-General's
competence in respect of making judgements about national security.
Clearly, he failed in his exercise of judgement in this instance and it
makes me worry about things like Witness K, Richard Boyle,
David McBride and media raids. It's all of those sorts of things where
permission has been obtained in respect of things like prosecutions—some
of them now sensitive because of national security—when we have an
Attorney-General who simply doesn't understand national security.</span></p><span style="font-family: arial;"> </span><p><span style="font-family: arial;">But it also goes to the general transparency, or lack thereof, of the Morrison government. So many OPDs
in this place have been refused by this government and then I've
obtained them under FOI. There's this fairy dust claim over every matter
before the national cabinet when, in fact, the national cabinet is not a
traditional cabinet, and we'll find out at some stage that it doesn't
actually qualify. Democracy requires engagement and it requires informed
engagement, and we're not getting that.</span></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-41245165689874421902020-12-07T16:43:00.002+11:002020-12-07T16:46:34.505+11:00Reveal: Politicians easily dodge accountability for their mistakes-because they can! <figure>
<img height="384" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372669/original/file-20201202-13-1fq134k.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" width="577" />
<figcaption>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">Damian Shaw/AAP</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<span><a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/chris-aulich-51360">Chris Aulich</a>, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/university-of-canberra-865">University of Canberra</a></i></span>
<p>In recent days, the issue of government accountability was brought into sharp focus — again — when NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian admitted that community grants awarded primarily to councils in Coalition seats ahead of the 2019 state election was <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/nov/26/berejiklian-admits-140m-grant-scheme-was-pork-barrelling-as-approval-documents-revealed">pork barrelling</a>. </p>
<p>In defence, she said the practice of pork barrelling was “<a href="https://www.afr.com/politics/berejiklian-says-controversial-grants-program-was-pork-barrelling-20201126-p56i79">rightly or wrongly</a>” normal and wasn’t illegal, and that governments of all colours engage in election spending in order “to curry favour” with the electorate.</p>
<p>When the premier of NSW uses as a standard of integrity that pork barrelling is “not against the law”, she shows contempt for democratic conventions and a U-turn from the views she expressed in February 2019 when introducing measures to strengthen integrity in government. </p>
<p>These measures included a revised code of conduct for ministers and a stern reminder to politicians that they “<a href="https://www.afr.com/politics/new-anticorruption-unit-set-for-the-nsw-dpp-under-berejiklian-election-pledge-20190201-h1aq8r">always remain accountable to the community</a>”.</p>
<h2>Ministers were once held to a higher standard</h2>
<p>In the 1960s, the eminent scholar Roger Wettenhall <a href="https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/21524607">argued</a> ministers were accountable for <i>all</i> that occurred within their departments.</p>
<p>This was a recognition that even if ministerial action was not directly responsible for errors, ministers were nonetheless accountable for them. In the most serious cases, there was an expectation that ministers should resign, though in reality, few ever did. </p>
<hr />
<p>
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/as-the-government-drags-its-heels-a-better-model-for-a-federal-integrity-commission-has-emerged-148796">As the government drags its heels, a better model for a federal integrity commission has emerged</a>
</b>
</i>
</p>
<hr />
<p>Ministers are not just accountable for significant errors made within their departments, but also for behaviours deemed contrary to their ministerial code of conduct. Again, conventions hold that ministers should resign if their actions are deemed dishonest, were intended to mislead parliament or the public, or brought the government into disrepute. </p>
<p>Many ministers have resigned over improprieties in the past. For instance, Immigration Minister Mick Young <a href="https://www.afr.com/politics/alp-reels-in-the-wake-of-mick-young-resignation-19880209-k2nin">stood aside</a> over the “Paddington Bear” issue, Jim Cairns <a href="https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/loans-affair-exposed-naivety-arrogance-of-whitlam-government/news-story/107ee2e68f031907adacbe61278a1a3d">resigned</a> over improperly seeking overseas loans, Jamie Briggs <a href="https://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/briggs-reaction-is-realism-not-political-correctness/news-story/b6a650b6906f8a133835a4ac19f24ba4">stepped down</a> over his “personal behaviour” and Michael MacKellar <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_MacKellar#:%7E:text=MacKellar%20attracted%20some%20controversy%20over,of%20a%20colour%20television%20set.&text=MacKellar%20resigned%20from%20Parliament%20on,future%20Prime%20Minister%20Tony%20Abbott.">resigned</a> over importing a colour television. </p>
<figure class="align-center">
<img alt="Briggs resigned as a minister in the Turnbull government." height="127" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=380&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=380&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=380&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=478&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=478&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372697/original/file-20201203-15-loep9t.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=478&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" width="200" />
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Briggs resigned as a minister in the Turnbull government over an incident in a Hong Kong bar involving a female public servant.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">MICK TSIKAS/AAP</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>How ministers today have dealt with scandal</h2>
<p>But fast forward to today, and neither Richard Colbeck nor Stuart Robert have resigned over major blunders within their ministries related to <a href="https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/09/03/richard-colbeck-censured-senate-aged-care/">aged care</a> and the <a href="https://www.wellingtontimes.com.au/story/7015438/robodebt-minister-claims-win-ending-scheme/">“robodebt” scandal</a>, respectively. </p>
<p>This begs the question why Prime Minister Scott Morrison did not deem it sufficiently important to exact accountability from his ministers for their major mistakes, especially when these two cases cost more than a billion dollars of public funds.</p>
<p>It also remains unclear why minister Angus Taylor, who sent a letter to the lord mayor of Sydney <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/23/doctored-documents-angus-taylor-news-corp-climate-clover-moore">making false accusations</a> about the Sydney City Council’s travel expenses, was not asked to resign. </p>
<figure class="align-center">
<img alt="Taylor was forced to apologise for the letter." height="133" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372699/original/file-20201203-23-1lrq361.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" width="200" />
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Taylor was forced to apologise after the figures in his letter were proved incorrect. He says he now considers the matter ‘finalised’.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">MICK TSIKAS/AAP</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Similarly, the personal conduct of ministers Alan Tudge and Christian Porter has come under scrutiny thanks to an <a href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-10/four-corners-investigation-christian-porter-sexism-inappropriate/12862910">ABC Four Corners investigation</a>, but has been <a href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-10/scott-morrison-responds-four-corners-report-christian-porter/12867382">dismissed by Morrison</a> on the basis their alleged actions occurred during the watch of the previous prime minister. </p>
<p>And on numerous occasions, the travel allowances for ministers and MPs have been challenged, without serious repercussions. The current federal ministerial code of conduct spells out clearly that such indiscretions are not acceptable.</p>
<hr />
<p>
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/whats-in-the-public-interest-why-the-abc-is-right-to-cover-allegations-of-inappropriate-ministerial-conduct-149821">What's in the 'public interest'? Why the ABC is right to cover allegations of inappropriate ministerial conduct</a>
</b>
</i>
</p>
<hr />
<p>This brings us back to the issue of pork barrelling. At the federal level, minister <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/feb/02/bridget-mckenzie-resigns-following-sports-rort-affair">Bridget McKenzie did resign</a> this year over the “sports rorts” affair. The code of conduct provides that ministers allocate the funds available to them in “the public interest”. McKenzie’s view that the public interest was the same as her party’s interest was unacceptable. </p>
<p>This scandal has parallels with an earlier “sports rorts affair” that cost <a href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-22/everything-we-know-about-sports-grants-so-far/11888620">Labor minister Ros Kelly her position in 1994</a>, as well as with the current NSW local government grants scheme with its shredded papers. </p>
<p>Rather than accept their accountability like McKenzie and Kelly, Berejiklian is maintaining that pork barrelling is common practice — an opinion that might well be contested by parliament and the community. </p>
<figure class="align-center">
<img alt="McKenzie resigned from Morrison’s ministry." height="133" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372702/original/file-20201203-15-v3z3ze.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" width="200" />
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">McKenzie resigned from Morrison’s ministry in February over her role in the sports rorts affair.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">MICK TSIKAS/AAP</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<h2>Have politicians been emboldened by their COVID successes?</h2>
<p>Why, then, are so many current politicians willing to dodge taking accountability for their actions? The easy answer is because they can.</p>
<p>After all, the government conventions around accountability have no legal force. They have merely been “honoured” by politicians as part of our democratic culture – as sociologist <a href="https://www.booktopia.com.au/organizational-culture-and-leadership-edgar-h-schein/book/9781119212041.html?source=pla&gclid=Cj0KCQiAk53-BRD0ARIsAJuNhptoVhQh3RzKAEwxASv7unNmb8HdTSvVlOhiWh5nbxWC3CyXLR4D830aAsUeEALw_wcB">Edgar Schein suggests</a>, it is “the way we do things around here”. </p>
<hr />
<p>
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/the-long-history-of-political-corruption-in-nsw-and-the-downfall-of-mps-ministers-and-premiers-147994">The long history of political corruption in NSW — and the downfall of MPs, ministers and premiers</a>
</b>
</i>
</p>
<hr />
<p>It seems current politicians are re-setting this democratic culture and the conventions that go along with it. Modern politicians are now very savvy in managing the press, and deft at reframing issues to their advantage. </p>
<p>Berejiklian gave a master class in this when she was confronted with accusations of <a href="https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/we-were-close-berejiklian-was-in-a-relationship-with-ex-mp-maguire-20201012-p5647m.html">failing to disclose an intimate relationship</a> with disgraced former MP Daryl Maguire. </p>
<p>She reframed the issue as a personal one, in which she had been swept along by a romantic attachment. She argues, probably correctly, that she did nothing that was illegal. However, her actions were highly questionable from an ethical point of view.</p>
<figure class="align-center">
<img alt="Berejiklian has been under intense media scrutiny." height="133" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=400&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/372706/original/file-20201203-13-mq1k5i.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=503&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" width="200" />
<figcaption>
<span class="caption">Berejiklian has been under intense scrutiny since revealing her relationship with Maguire in October.</span>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">DEAN LEWINS/AAP</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<p>Perhaps our current federal and NSW leaders have been emboldened by their successes in responding to the pandemic and are counting on this to defuse criticisms of their actions. They likely believe that issues of accountability — at least in the public mind — might pale in relation to the “big” issues of bushfires and COVID-19. </p>
<p>As such, ignoring accountability is seen as merely a small peccadillo.</p>
<h2>Independents may be the key</h2>
<p>In the broader context, voters have shown they are more willing to elect local independents, such as Helen Haines, Rebekha Sharkie and Zali Steggall at the federal level and Roy Butler, Joe McGirr and Helen Dalton in NSW, who are not seen to be in the mould of other politicians. </p>
<p>There is clearly a move towards candidates who place a very high value on conventional values, such as representation and integrity. And it is these members who may act as circuit breakers to stop the further corrosion of democratic conventions in our governments. </p>
<p>Simon Longstaff, executive director of <a href="https://ethics.org.au/">The Ethics Centre</a>, <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22library%2Fpartypol%2FLASO6%22">summed this up well when he noted</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>we want politicians who see engagement in public life as a vocation and not just a game. We want politicians who will speak the truth - even when it harms them to do so. We want politicians who respect us as citizens and not just as voters.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If the major parties continue to ignore accountability, perhaps the election of independents and minor parties will provide the stimulus for truth to power.<!--Below is The Conversation's page counter tag. Please DO NOT REMOVE.--><img alt="The Conversation" height="1" src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/150839/count.gif?distributor=republish-lightbox-basic" style="border: medium none; box-shadow: none; margin: 0px; max-height: 1px; max-width: 1px; min-height: 1px; min-width: 1px; opacity: 0; outline: currentcolor none medium; padding: 0px; text-shadow: none;" width="1" /><!--End of code. If you don't see any code above, please get new code from the Advanced tab after you click the republish button. The page counter does not collect any personal data. More info: https://theconversation.com/republishing-guidelines--></p>
<p><span><a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/chris-aulich-51360">Chris Aulich</a>, Adjunct Professor at the University of Canberra, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/university-of-canberra-865">University of Canberra</a></i></span></p>
<p>This article is republished from <a href="https://theconversation.com">The Conversation</a> under a Creative Commons license. Read the <a href="https://theconversation.com/why-can-politicians-so-easily-dodge-accountability-for-their-mistakes-the-troubling-answer-because-they-can-150839">original article</a>.</p>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-696245637420900282020-10-28T17:06:00.001+11:002020-10-30T16:14:37.993+11:00 Cabinet secrecy for the National Cabinet-maybe, maybe not<p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>Seven months after its formation, the National Cabinet has made its way into the just published new edition of the <a href="https://www.pmc.gov.au/resource-centre/government/cabinet-handbook" target="_blank">Cabinet Handbook.</a> (Pages 30-31) but is still to get a mention in the <a href="https://www.directory.gov.au/commonwealth-parliament/cabinet/cabinet-committees/cabinet-office-policy-committee" target="_blank">Government Directory</a><br /></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>Anyone looking for an explanation about what makes the NC and a range of committees and groups that come within its scope <span lang="EN-US" style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">(The Council</span><span lang="EN-US"> on <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Federal</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Financial</span>
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Relations,</span></span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"> any other committees </span></span></span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US">"as required"</span></span></span> that the NC establishes, </span>and any </span></span></span></span><span><span><span lang="EN-US" style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">National</span><span lang="EN-US"> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Cabinet</span>
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Reform</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Committees</span>)</span> part of the Federal Government Cabinet will be disappointed by the entry in the Handbook.<br /></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>There is nothing in the National Cabinet section that adds anything to the Prime Minister's explanation that it's part of the Cabinet because he, presumably supported in this by the Premiers and First Ministers of the states and territories, decided it is, and say so.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>According to the entry the "National Cabinet operates according to the longstanding Westminster principles of collective responsibility and solidarity." </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>Those principles as explained elsewhere in the Handbook (Page 9) are hard to reconcile with what has been on public display in the operation of the National Cabinet. For example:</span></span></span></span></p><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">"(O)nce</span><span style="letter-spacing: 3.15pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">decisions</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">are</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.05pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">arrived</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">at</span> and <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">announced</span>
they<span style="letter-spacing: -0.15pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">are </span>supported <span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;">by</span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">all</span>
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">ministers."</span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US">"(A)<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>decision of<span style="letter-spacing: 0.05pt;"> </span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> Cabinet</span> is
binding<span style="letter-spacing: -0.15pt;"> </span>on<span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">all</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">members</span> of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>Government<span style="letter-spacing: 1.95pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">regardless</span>
of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> whether </span>they<span style="letter-spacing: -0.15pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">were
present</span> when the<span style="letter-spacing: 0.05pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">decision</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">was</span>
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">taken."</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">"The</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.05pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">aim</span> is to <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">reach</span> some<span style="letter-spacing: 4.25pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">form</span> of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">
consensus</span> so <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">that</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">
Prime Minister,</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">as</span> chair<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> Cabinet,</span> can summarise<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> what</span> the<span style="letter-spacing: 3.25pt;">
</span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">collective decision</span> is <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">for</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.05pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">recording</span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.15pt;">
</span>in the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> Cabinet</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">minute.</span></span> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US" style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">"Members</span><span lang="EN-US"> of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> Cabinet</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;">
</span>must publicly<span style="letter-spacing: -0.4pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">support</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">all</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Government</span>
decisions <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">made </span>in the<span style="letter-spacing: 2.75pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Cabinet,</span>
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">even</span> if<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>they<span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;"> </span>do<span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span>not <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">agree
with</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">them</span></span>." <br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US">"Cabinet <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">ministers</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">cannot</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">dissociate themselves</span><span style="letter-spacing: 4.55pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">from,</span>
or<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> repudiate </span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>decisions of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> their Cabinet</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">colleagues</span>
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">unless</span> they<span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">resign</span> from the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> Cabinet.</span></span>" <br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.1pt;">"It</span> is the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> Prime Minister’s</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">role as</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Chair </span>of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">
</span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>Cabinet, <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">where necessary,</span> to<span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">enforce Cabinet</span><span style="letter-spacing: 4pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">solidarity.</span></span>" <br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><ul style="text-align: left;"><li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Observance of the two principles is </span></span></span></span><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US">"entirely<span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">dependent</span>
on a<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> commitment</span> to <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">three
important</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">operational</span> values:
<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">consultation;</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">confidentiality;</span><span style="letter-spacing: 0.1pt;"> </span><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">and</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">respect</span> <span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">for</span>the<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"> </span>primacy<span style="letter-spacing: -0.25pt;"> </span>of<span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">
Cabinet</span> decisions.</span>" </span></span></span></span></span></span></li></ul><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">Officials from Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, Australian Government Solicitor and Attorney General's Department were not able to explain more fully in Senate Estimates this week.</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Festimate%2F1df61003-566e-42c4-8bf4-8d836f278f30%2F0003%22" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.05pt;">PMC </span></span></span></span></a></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2Fe5z%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">Senator Siewert</a> .. Has.. the claim that
national cabinet has the same provisions as cabinet, been raised by the
states and agreed to by the states and territories?</span></span></span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>
</span></span></span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Foster</span> (Deputy Secretary) <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> National cabinet
was established by agreement of all first ministers, and they agreed
that they wished national cabinet to be established as a subcommittee of
the federal cabinet with all of the same provisions applying to it.</span></span></span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>
</span></span></span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2Fe5z%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SIEWERT:</span>
</a> Under what legal basis is that? Just them agreeing to it doesn't make it so.</span></span></span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span>
</span></span></span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Foster</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Senator, as you
know, cabinet operates by longstanding convention, and this committee
was formed by the agreement of all the members under those provisions.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal">Prompting Senator Wong to comment<br /></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F00AOU%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
</a>They're out there smashing each other publicly.
Ministers generally don't do that. And it's not bound by consensus.
Sorry, but I just think you shouldn't give evidence that's not correct.
It might be the Prime Minister's line, but you should not give that
evidence.</span> </span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span><span><span class="HPS-Normal">Later questioning saw officials explain </span><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal">the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee and </span></span><br /><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal">the COVID committee in preparing material for national cabinet consideration, are subject to the
cabinet confidentiality provisions.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Festimate%2Fa1ae9e40-73dd-4b84-8309-ee11c9cfbe09%2F0001%22" target="_blank"><span class="HPS-Normal">Attorney General's Portfolio</span></a><span class="HPS-Normal"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal">Answers to questions by the Australian Government Solicitor Mr Kingston bear a close relationship to a Yes Minister script. <span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal">Those from the Secretary of the Department Mr Moraitis more closely resemble </span></span></span></span><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span>Sergeant Schultz- "I know nothing". <span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span>Defies summarising.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span> Full text below. </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span><b>Next-the Tribunal</b><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span>Senator Patrick is in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal challenging an FOI refusal of access to documents on the basis that national cabinet is covered by the cabinet document exemption. </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span>In <a href="https://foi-privacy.blogspot.com/2020/06/a-reose-by-any-name-is-national-cabinet.html#.X5kCl9tS8UQ" target="_blank">this post</a> in June I suggested the National Cabinet lacked the essential characteristics of a cabinet that an earlier Tribunal decision described as relevant in deciding whether the exemption applies. </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span><span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Carr in estimates cited Constitutional law professor Cheryl Saunders saying, 'It's impossible for a meeting of the first ministers to operate
according to the longstanding Westminster principles of collective
responsibility as is claimed in the new <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span></span>."</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="aCOpRe"><span>Time will tell. </span></span></span></span></span></span> <span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><a name='more'></a><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation"><b>Senate Estimates 21 October 2020</b><br /></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
In regard to the new <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span>,
did the Attorney-General's Department provide advice to the government
regarding the legal conventions with regard to the operations of the
federal cabinet, especially those that relate to the extension of those
meetings to first ministers</span></span></span>
</p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'm unable to
speak for other parts of the department, but in relation to AGS, any
advice we might have provided to Prime Minister and Cabinet, or indeed
whether we provided advice, is something we, as the lawyers, would be
under a duty of confidentiality in relation to and I would seek to take
that question on notice if I may, so that we could consult with the
client before answering it.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Could I also add that no other part of the department has been involved in this matter.</span>
</span></span></p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> The reason I'm seeking advice here is that I'm
wondering whether there is, in fact, any legal status at all to the
notion of the national cabinet? Can you outline for me what the legal
basis of it is?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> With the
greatest of respect, I suspect that is a question that, if it goes to
the operations of the national cabinet, is better directed to the
Department for Prime Minister and Cabinet who, as I understand it, have
responsibility for it within the Commonwealth. We think the official
guidance for government witnesses says that government lawyers, such as
AGS, are normally not at committee hearings in order to provide advice
to the committee. To the extent that you're asking us, 'What advice have
you maybe given government in relation to what you're talking about,'
that would involve us revealing the content of any advice we may have
given to government which, as you know, is something we'd normally seek
to consult with our client about before answering a question like that.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Can you show me where in the Constitution there is
reference to an interstate body or an intergovernmental forum
comprising members of different parliaments, particularly first
ministers, which could confer a legal authority to make legal decisions?
Show me within the Constitution where that exists.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I don't think I can point you to a provision in those terms.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I put it to you that it doesn't exist; the reason you can't point to it is because it doesn't exist.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes, I'm not seeking to disagree with you.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I appreciate the point that you're not disagreeing
with me, but that's the reason why I'm raising the matter. There's an
opportunity here to say to me, 'Well, look, Carr, I know a little bit
more about the Constitution than you do, and my reading of the
Constitution does not highlight a proposition which is contained in the <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span> suggesting that this is a legal body.' Can you contradict me?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> To the extent
that you're seeking on behalf of officials or the Public Service or the
government some authoritative statement about what the status is of the
national cabinet et cetera then, as I said, with respect, I think that
it doesn't come from lawyers who are engaged by different parts of
government from time to time. It comes from the part of government with
policy responsibility for that. So I think it's simply not my role and
I'm not in a position to do that.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> It might also come from the parliament. I might—</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes, I'm not
trying to exclude parliament at all. What I was going to say is that to
the extent, if at all, we've been asked to provide legal advice to
assist people about this, then whether we've done that and its content
would be confidential. We would need—and, as I said, I'd be very happy
to—to take a question on notice and to consult with any client about the
relevant—</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I accept that you're going to take that aspect of
it on notice. But this goes to the issue of your expertise. Can you show
me in the Constitution, or in any other law, that which confers on the
Prime Minister the power to create a new legal convention by decree?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> As I said, I
cannot point you to anything in the Constitution. Whether it's possible
to point you to anything in any other law, I'm simply not able to
provide an answer to that right now.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Alright. I'm surprised that you can't immediately
contradict me, because I'm putting the proposition to you that there is
no other law that allows the Prime Minister to create by decree a new
legal convention. I may not be a lawyer but I am a student of history,
as I've said before, and I'm just trying to find the convention or the
law, or any plain reading of the Australian Constitution, which allows
the Prime Minister to create such a legal convention. Can the department
assist me with any instrument that contradicts that proposition?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'll have to take on notice as to whether there are any other instruments of that nature.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Let's take that a bit further. Can you show me
anywhere in the Constitution—or any other law—which confers on the Prime
Minister the power to, by decree, declare a meeting between him and
state and territory first ministers a subcommittee of the federal
cabinet?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'll take that
on notice. I'll ask Mr Kingston to respond. I can't even recall a
reference to federal cabinet in the Constitution.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I thought you might come to that sooner or later.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> But I'm not the expert on this; this was about 30 years ago—</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> There is a longstanding political argument as to
the nature of the Australian Constitution and its inadequacies, so
that's why I asked you. If you think if the Australian Constitution
doesn't cover this, what law that allows the Prime Minister to declare a
state meeting a subcommittee of the federal cabinet covers this?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'll defer to Mr
Kingston. He has referred to the policy responsibility for PM&C,
but I'll ask him to elaborate any further, if he thinks appropriate.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I think, to the
extent it assists—and it may not—this was, to some degree, addressed
yesterday by the deputy secretary of Prime Minister and Cabinet at their
estimates committee when they spoke about being established by
agreement of first ministers as a subcommittee of the federal cabinet.
But beyond that, I can't really go beyond what I've already said to
Senator Carr, which is that our role is not to, with respect, come to an
estimates committee to give advice at large to the committee about
particular things. If it's about, 'What advice may we have given
government on these issues?' it goes back to these issues which are
covered by our duty of confidentiality.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> But these declarations go much further than we've
seen before. It's put to us that this is contingent on a national
emergency. Is there any provision—for instance, the biosecurity
legislation—that provides for this? If so, was that invoked to allow
this to occur?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'm not aware of it being invoked in this context, but I do not have a universal knowledge of that. I'm not aware of that, no.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> This suggests, for instance, that the national
cabinet sets out procedures in terms of the operations for cabinet
papers and the like. Does the Archives Act still apply to these
provisions?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Again, if it's a
question about how the Archives treat papers from the national cabinet
then, as you would have seen, there is some discussion in the <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span> about dealing with national cabinet papers.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> But, if there
were questions about that, again, with respect, I'd say that would be a
question for the Archives, not the lawyers for government.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> This is the Attorney-General's Department. You're
aware that I have some association with the National Archives. I can
just imagine me going down there and asking them what their view is on
the application of the National Archives to the national cabinet. They
would refer me directly to you.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">Unidentified speaker:</span> Would they?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I'm clear they would.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">Unidentified speaker:</span> I'm not sure.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Perhaps we can ask them tomorrow morning if you
think that's in doubt. Does it apply or not? Does the Archives Act apply
to the national cabinet?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That's not
something I have given any thought to. Again, as to whether AGS as a
whole has given advice on that would be covered by our obligations of
confidentiality, we'd need to consult with any client before answering
that question.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Barrister Jeremy Farrell has stated that the
national cabinet is 'an expedient and improvised system of governance
that operates in a vacuum of statutory authority or intergovernmental
agreement'. Is he correct?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I've read some comments like that, but I don't have any comment to offer on the views of a range of different lawyers. </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> You're singularly unhelpful on these matters, I
think. All of these questions you've taken on notice, effectively,
haven't you? </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes, Senator. </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Constitutional law professor Cheryl Saunders says,
'It's impossible for a meeting of the first ministers to operate
according to the longstanding Westminster principles of collective
responsibility as is claimed in the new <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span>.' Is she correct? </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I have great
respect for Professor Saunders, she having taught me a long time ago.
But, as I said—and I've read comments of a similar nature—with respect, I
don't think it's my role as a public servant and lawyer within the
government to be commenting on those sorts of comments.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> What's the duration of the new <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span>? Do you know that?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I might be wrong, but I'm not aware of it having a fixed duration. </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> It's probably a question for Prime Minister and Cabinet. </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Who is responsible for the management of national cabinet documents, in terms of their security arrangements?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That would be a
question for Prime Minister and Cabinet. We're really not responsible
for the policy attending the organisation and the meetings of national
cabinet or documents produced in connection with those meetings.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I'm at a loss to explain how this process of the
national cabinet fits within our understanding of cabinet government in
Australia. Are you able to provide us with any advice as to how it fits
within the conventions of cabinet government in Australia?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'm not able to add to what I've already said in relation to similar questions.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Alright. I'll have to leave it there, given your
extraordinary unavailability of knowledge on this question. Did you want
to say something on this matter?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> It sounds like Senator Patrick would like the call briefly.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F144292%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span>
</a> I didn't hear all of the dialogue, but it's
correct that cabinet is a creature of convention. The only place that I
see it mentioned in the statutes is in the FOI Act and the Archives Act.
Is that your understanding? </span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I couldn't say. It may be mentioned in some other legislation. I couldn't say definitively it's not mentioned anywhere else.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F144292%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span>
</a> It's not mentioned in the Constitution. I think the Federal Executive Council is, but not the cabinet.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F144292%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span>
</a> In terms of the changes that have been made, did
the Prime Minister seek legal advice in respect of altering the
convention, because that's how the cabinet was established over hundreds
of years, including back in the UK? Was any advice sought, either from
the AGS or from the Solicitor-General?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I can't speak
for the Solicitor-General. In relation to AGS, the subject matter of
advice we may have been asked for would be a matter in which we're under
an obligation of confidentiality in relation to our client, so I would
seek to take that question on notice so that we could consult with our
client about answering it.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F144292%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span>
</a> I'm just after the existence of advice, not
perhaps the general question that may have been put to the AGS or the
Solicitor-General but simply the general comment as to whether or not
advice was sought.</span></span><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span></p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes. I
understand, but, as a general proposition, lawyers are under a duty of
confidentiality not to disclose the topics on which clients have asked
them for advice as well as being under a duty not to disclose what the
content of that advice is. So it's in that context I'm saying that we
would normally seek to take a question like that, even though it's just
directed to the topic rather than the content, on notice to consult with
our client about that duty of confidentiality and then whether they
were content for to us answer it or wish to make some claim in relation
to public interest immunity.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F144292%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span>
</a> Okay. Just extending from that—I guess you're
going to take this on notice as well—if such advice was sought, could
you provide some details as to the dates at which it was sought? So that
you know where I'm going, was the advice sought before the Prime
Minister's announcement as to the national cabinet or has it been sought
subsequently, for example, in the formation of the <span style="font-style: italic;">Cabinet Handbook</span> and/or other internal arrangements that may have been considered by PM&C.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Kingston</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I understand the question and I will take that on notice.</span></span></span>
</p>
<p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2F144292%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span>
</a> Thank you.</span>
</p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
</p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-45205174599041367772020-09-08T16:34:00.001+10:002020-09-08T16:35:20.564+10:00Major parties respond with faint praise but nothing else to Senator Patrick's FOI reform bill<p> <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">In 2018 Senator Rex Patrick sponsored the introduction of the <span class="hi">Freedom of Information</span> Legislation Amendment (Improving Access and Transparency) <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=s1142" target="_blank">Bill</a> and made the second reading <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=CHAMBER;id=chamber%2Fhansards%2F83790d29-24a1-423d-9160-70eab8cb7b5e%2F0119;query=Id%3A%22chamber%2Fhansards%2F83790d29-24a1-423d-9160-70eab8cb7b5e%2F0117%22" target="_blank">speech</a>, the bill was referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, the Committee <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_and_Constitutional_Affairs/FreedomofInformation" target="_blank">report</a> recommended the Senate not pass the bill (Senator Patrick and Greens senators dissenting)......</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">And there the bill sat until last week when it came on for Senate <a href="https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?id=2020-08-31.10.1" target="_blank">debate</a> for 70 minutes before time expired.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The major parties did not support the bill in 2018 and reaffirmed that in 2020, so its fate is clear. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Senator Patrick managed to get an acknowledgement that the government respects the intent to 'make government more transparent and more accountable, to assist citizens and the media to access <span class="hi">information</span> under the law and to improve the effectiveness <span class="hi">of</span> Australia's <span class="hi">freedom-of-information</span> laws' and from Labor that the bill was "well intentioned, and many <span class="hi">of</span> the proposals it puts forward warrant close examination' , but that was as far as they went.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Among the remarks worth highlighting: </span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>Senator Amanda Stoker (Queensland, Liberal Party)</b></span></span></p><p></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">The government remains steadfast in its support for transparency, for the value <span class="hi">of</span> the <span class="hi">freedom-of-information</span> arrangements and for providing substantial funding to the Office <span class="hi">of</span> the Australian <span class="hi">Information</span> Commissioner so that it can do its job <span class="hi">of</span> making sure Australians can access important <span class="hi">information</span> from governments.... the objectives <span class="hi">of</span> transparency, accountability and <span class="hi">freedom of information</span> are objectives that are highly valued and shared by this government.</span></span></blockquote><p></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(Spoken apparently with a straight face) <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>Senator Murray Watt (Queensland ALP) </b><br /></span></span></p><p></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">This government hates scrutiny. This government has contempt for basic notions <span class="hi">of</span>
accountability. This is a government that prefers to operate in the
shadows. It is not difficult to see why, because, every time sunlight
does find a way in, Australians do not like what they see. Whether it's
sports rorts, Angus Taylor's latest outrage, the awarding <span class="hi">of</span> contracts worth hundreds <span class="hi">of</span> millions <span class="hi">of</span>
dollars to companies headquartered in beach shacks or the government's
shocking and scandalous record on aged care, the Morrison government
does not want Australians to know what it is up to. Make no mistake:
that is why the government hates our FOI laws and treats those laws with
such contempt. That is also why the government continues to starve the <span class="hi">Information</span> Commissioner <span class="hi">of</span> resources—so that it takes the commissioner so long to review a rejected <span class="hi">freedom-of-information</span> request that the applicant just gives up. <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">....since this Liberal government took power in 2013, they have been at war with <span class="hi">freedom of information</span>,
at war with transparency, at war with accountability to the Australian
people, who elected them, so Senator Patrick is to be congratulated for
bringing forward this bill, which demonstrates his belief that FOI laws
need to be strengthened and in the need to undo some <span class="hi">of</span> the harm that the Morrison government has done to our democracy in its trashing <span class="hi">of</span> FOI and its obsession with secrecy and cover-up.</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(Spoken without reference to the fact Labor has not put forward comprehensive, concrete reforms proposals during seven years in opposition.) <br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>Senator Larrisa Waters (Queensland Australian Greens</b>)</span></span></p><p></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">...this is the least transparent government in history.</span></span></blockquote><p></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(Spoken ignoring the fact any government before 1982 when FOI was introduced would beat all since for the least transparent trophy.)</span></span></p><p><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Senator Paul Scarr (Queensland Liberal Party)</span></span></b></p><p class="italic"></p><blockquote><p class="italic"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">...about resourcing. I think it's a key point, to be frank. It's
absolutely a key point. If we are going to have an FOI Act regime, there
needs to be appropriate resourcing provided for it. It doesn't matter
who's in government; there needs to be that appropriate resourcing. When
I read the report <span class="hi">of</span> the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee, page 9, paragraph 2.9 says: </span></span></p><p class="italic"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">When
asked whether there needed to be more resources at both the early
resolution stage, as well as at a later stage, to enable more <span class="hi">Information</span> Commissioner reviews to be finalised earlier, Ms Falk stated:</span></span></p> <p class="italic"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">'At
this point in time, that's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing that where I
need to focus is on working with government to increase the offices
resources to increase the capacity at the case-officer level and
potentially, the executive level. If that were to be increased and then
have a flow-on effect to more <span class="hi">Information</span> Commissioner reviews being required <span class="hi">of</span>
the commissioner and that being something that's not manageable within
other functions then that would be something that I would bring to the
attention <span class="hi">of</span> government.'</span></span></p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> Those are the actual words from the <span class="hi">Information</span> Commissioner in the report. In my respectful view, they do not support the characterisation <span class="hi">of</span> this matter by Senator Watt,</span></span></blockquote><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;">(Spoken in apparent ignorance of the fact that while the Information Commissioner did say this in 2018, she said something different in <a href="https://www.oaic.gov.au/assets/about-us/access-our-information/foi-disclosure-log/foireq20-00115.pdf" target="_blank">Senate Estimates</a> in October 2019:</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 182.938px; top: 231.417px; transform: scaleX(1.11683);"></span></span></span></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 182.938px; top: 231.417px; transform: scaleX(1.11683);">Senator </span><span style="left: 238.732px; top: 231.417px; transform: scaleX(1.1185);">KIM </span><span style="left: 276.537px; top: 231.417px; transform: scaleX(1.12407);">CARR: </span><span style="left: 337.683px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(0.944216);">Did </span><span style="left: 365.715px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(0.759194);">I </span><span style="left: 375.44px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(0.98841);">hear </span><span style="left: 406.928px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(1.0027);">you </span><span style="left: 436.022px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(0.980446);">correctly </span><span style="left: 496.068px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(0.944913);">in </span><span style="left: 512.928px; top: 230.167px; transform: scaleX(0.986025);">your </span><span style="left: 547.108px; top: 229.75px; transform: scaleX(0.99012);">opening </span><span style="left: 602.358px; top: 229.75px; transform: scaleX(0.967396);">statement? </span><span style="left: 673.267px; top: 229.75px; transform: scaleX(0.980005);">Did </span><span style="left: 701.763px; top: 229.75px; transform: scaleX(0.984704);">you </span><span style="left: 730.248px; top: 229.333px; transform: scaleX(0.982858);">actually </span><span style="left: 784.025px; top: 229.333px; transform: scaleX(1.00333);">say </span><span style="left: 809.378px; top: 229.333px; transform: scaleX(0.986503);">that </span><span style="left: 838.18px; top: 229.333px; transform: scaleX(0.991965);">you're </span><span style="left: 166.273px; top: 248.583px; transform: scaleX(0.970215);">under-funded? </span><span style="left: 183.685px; top: 271.833px; transform: scaleX(0.992317);"> </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 183.685px; top: 271.833px; transform: scaleX(0.992317);">Ms </span><span style="left: 208.912px; top: 271.417px; transform: scaleX(1.10339);">Falk: </span><span style="left: 255.298px; top: 270.583px; transform: scaleX(0.759194);">I </span><span style="left: 265.588px; top: 270.583px; transform: scaleX(0.994726);">did </span><span style="left: 291.52px; top: 270.583px; transform: scaleX(0.99216);">raise </span><span style="left: 326.627px; top: 270.583px; transform: scaleX(0.975881);">the </span><span style="left: 351.235px; top: 270.583px; transform: scaleX(0.981911);">issue </span><span style="left: 387.942px; top: 270.583px; transform: scaleX(1.00555);">of </span><span style="left: 406.353px; top: 270.167px; transform: scaleX(0.995371);">resourcing </span><span style="left: 478.485px; top: 270.167px; transform: scaleX(0.944913);">in </span><span style="left: 495.795px; top: 270.167px; transform: scaleX(0.965953);">terms </span><span style="left: 535.525px; top: 270.167px; transform: scaleX(1.06724);">of </span><span style="left: 554.977px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.965917);">FOI. </span><span style="left: 589.715px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.948051);">It's </span><span style="left: 612.58px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.999539);">a </span><span style="left: 625.795px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.953611);">matter </span><span style="left: 670.212px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.989473);">that's </span><span style="left: 708.273px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.985164);">been </span><span style="left: 744.005px; top: 269.75px; transform: scaleX(0.970862);">discussed </span><span style="left: 808.69px; top: 269.333px; transform: scaleX(0.991126);">before </span><span style="left: 854.21px; top: 269.333px; transform: scaleX(0.979444);">this </span><span style="left: 166.02px; top: 288.583px; transform: scaleX(0.961864);">committee </span><span style="left: 234.358px; top: 288.583px; transform: scaleX(0.942503);">on </span><span style="left: 253.832px; top: 288.583px; transform: scaleX(0.999539);">a </span><span style="left: 264.692px; top: 288.167px; transform: scaleX(0.994521);">number </span><span style="left: 316.692px; top: 288.167px; transform: scaleX(1.03635);">of </span><span style="left: 333.525px; top: 288.167px; transform: scaleX(0.970574);">occasions, </span><span style="left: 401.25px; top: 288.167px; transform: scaleX(1.00015);">where </span><span style="left: 443.715px; top: 288.167px; transform: scaleX(0.980988);">I've </span><span style="left: 470.485px; top: 288.167px; transform: scaleX(0.965492);">indicated </span><span style="left: 530.628px; top: 287.75px; transform: scaleX(1.0006);">that </span><span style="left: 558.353px; top: 287.75px; transform: scaleX(0.987356);">really </span><span style="left: 597.668px; top: 287.75px; transform: scaleX(0.978151);">where </span><span style="left: 638.962px; top: 287.75px; transform: scaleX(1.00247);">the </span><span style="left: 661.608px; top: 287.75px; transform: scaleX(0.995786);">stresses </span><span style="left: 713.652px; top: 287.333px; transform: scaleX(0.980199);">in </span><span style="left: 729.378px; top: 287.333px; transform: scaleX(1.02466);">the </span><span style="left: 752.358px; top: 287.333px; transform: scaleX(0.98692);">system </span><span style="left: 799.683px; top: 287.333px; transform: scaleX(0.9617);">lie, </span><span style="left: 822.85px; top: 287.333px; transform: scaleX(1.00584);">from </span><span style="left: 857.377px; top: 287.333px; transform: scaleX(1.00247);">the </span><span style="left: 165.893px; top: 306.583px; transform: scaleX(0.968079);">OIC's </span><span style="left: 205.135px; top: 306.583px; transform: scaleX(0.978457);">perspective, </span><span style="left: 284.248px; top: 306.167px; transform: scaleX(0.996908);">are </span><span style="left: 308.085px; top: 306.167px; transform: scaleX(0.981896);">with </span><span style="left: 340.21px; top: 306.167px; transform: scaleX(0.980279);">the </span><span style="left: 363.442px; top: 306.167px; transform: scaleX(0.973369);">need </span><span style="left: 397.267px; top: 306.167px; transform: scaleX(0.990347);">for </span><span style="left: 420.21px; top: 306.167px; transform: scaleX(0.974789);">more </span><span style="left: 456.358px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(0.991337);">staffing. </span><span style="left: 512.132px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(0.980988);">I've </span><span style="left: 538.775px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(1.00119);">set </span><span style="left: 561.525px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(0.968833);">out </span><span style="left: 585.378px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(1.00247);">the </span><span style="left: 609.267px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(0.956341);">fact </span><span style="left: 636.628px; top: 305.75px; transform: scaleX(0.96531);">that </span><span style="left: 664.083px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.98839);">we've </span><span style="left: 704.273px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.992368);">had </span><span style="left: 731.415px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.985092);">an </span><span style="left: 750.745px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.957497);">80 </span><span style="left: 770.802px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.968266);">per </span><span style="left: 795.188px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.95468);">cent </span><span style="left: 825.235px; top: 305.333px; transform: scaleX(0.993215);">increase </span><span style="left: 166.485px; top: 324.167px; transform: scaleX(0.909727);">in </span><span style="left: 183.298px; top: 324.167px; transform: scaleX(0.95213);">Information </span><span style="left: 260.643px; top: 323.75px; transform: scaleX(0.983796);">Commissioner </span><span style="left: 356.77px; top: 323.75px; transform: scaleX(0.962998);">reviews </span><span style="left: 408.998px; top: 323.75px; transform: scaleX(0.993468);">and </span><span style="left: 436.882px; top: 323.75px; transform: scaleX(0.77689);">I </span><span style="left: 446.273px; top: 323.333px; transform: scaleX(0.977867);">have </span><span style="left: 480.5px; top: 323.333px; transform: scaleX(0.969459);">worked </span><span style="left: 531.842px; top: 323.333px; transform: scaleX(0.984121);">very </span><span style="left: 564.385px; top: 323.333px; transform: scaleX(0.974252);">purposefully </span><span style="left: 646.775px; top: 323px; transform: scaleX(0.995732);">since </span><span style="left: 683.44px; top: 323px; transform: scaleX(1.00744);">being </span><span style="left: 723.652px; top: 323px; transform: scaleX(0.944913);">in </span><span style="left: 740.212px; top: 323px; transform: scaleX(0.980279);">the </span><span style="left: 764.353px; top: 323px; transform: scaleX(0.95736);">role </span><span style="left: 792.358px; top: 323px; transform: scaleX(0.99738);">on </span><span style="left: 813.267px; top: 322.583px; transform: scaleX(0.983806);">looking </span><span style="left: 865.415px; top: 322.583px; transform: scaleX(0.958377);">at </span><span style="left: 166.273px; top: 342.167px; transform: scaleX(0.974188);">how </span><span style="left: 196.5px; top: 342.167px; transform: scaleX(0.965726);">we </span><span style="left: 218.438px; top: 342.167px; transform: scaleX(0.93296);">can </span><span style="left: 243.652px; top: 341.75px; transform: scaleX(0.993215);">increase </span><span style="left: 299.108px; top: 341.75px; transform: scaleX(1.0081);">our </span><span style="left: 324.485px; top: 341.75px; transform: scaleX(0.991749);">efficiency. </span><span style="left: 393.478px; top: 341.75px; transform: scaleX(0.999989);">Over </span><span style="left: 428.962px; top: 341.333px; transform: scaleX(0.986503);">that </span><span style="left: 456.358px; top: 341.333px; transform: scaleX(0.995732);">same </span><span style="left: 492.385px; top: 341.333px; transform: scaleX(0.982608);">period </span><span style="left: 536.692px; top: 341.333px; transform: scaleX(1.03635);">of </span><span style="left: 553.377px; top: 341.333px; transform: scaleX(0.994277);">time—the </span><span style="left: 620.517px; top: 341px; transform: scaleX(0.972872);">four-year </span><span style="left: 681.552px; top: 341px; transform: scaleX(0.995084);">period—we </span><span style="left: 759.857px; top: 341px; transform: scaleX(0.966472);">have </span><span style="left: 793.235px; top: 340.583px; transform: scaleX(0.977768);">increased </span><span style="left: 856.358px; top: 340.583px; transform: scaleX(0.967803);">our </span><span style="left: 166.485px; top: 359.75px; transform: scaleX(0.971218);">efficiency </span><span style="left: 231.44px; top: 359.75px; transform: scaleX(0.995581);">by </span><span style="left: 251.393px; top: 359.75px; transform: scaleX(1.01127);">45 </span><span style="left: 272.385px; top: 359.75px; transform: scaleX(0.988861);">per </span><span style="left: 297.605px; top: 359.333px; transform: scaleX(0.983757);">cent. </span><span style="left: 332.85px; top: 359.333px; transform: scaleX(0.940662);">But </span><span style="left: 359.715px; top: 359.333px; transform: scaleX(0.943796);">I've </span><span style="left: 386.517px; top: 359.333px; transform: scaleX(0.979333);">formed </span><span style="left: 436.212px; top: 359.333px; transform: scaleX(0.997972);">the </span><span style="left: 460.675px; top: 359.333px; transform: scaleX(0.971541);">view, </span><span style="left: 498.69px; top: 359px; transform: scaleX(0.996288);">having </span><span style="left: 546.438px; top: 359px; transform: scaleX(0.978464);">conducted </span><span style="left: 614.998px; top: 359px; transform: scaleX(0.999539);">a </span><span style="left: 626.69px; top: 359px; transform: scaleX(0.968623);">number </span><span style="left: 678.692px; top: 359px; transform: scaleX(1.01175);">of </span><span style="left: 696.353px; top: 359px; transform: scaleX(0.98869);">reviews </span><span style="left: 749.525px; top: 358.583px; transform: scaleX(1.03635);">of </span><span style="left: 767.378px; top: 358.583px; transform: scaleX(0.958089);">the </span><span style="left: 790.5px; top: 358.583px; transform: scaleX(0.980069);">way </span><span style="left: 821.652px; top: 358.583px; transform: scaleX(0.944913);">in </span><span style="left: 838.085px; top: 358.583px; transform: scaleX(0.983431);">which </span><span style="left: 166.083px; top: 377.75px; transform: scaleX(0.959124);">we're </span><span style="left: 202.438px; top: 377.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963572);">carrying </span><span style="left: 257.108px; top: 377.333px; transform: scaleX(0.989927);">out </span><span style="left: 281.108px; top: 377.333px; transform: scaleX(1.0081);">our </span><span style="left: 306.5px; top: 377.333px; transform: scaleX(0.9698);">work, </span><span style="left: 345.793px; top: 377.333px; transform: scaleX(0.968809);">that </span><span style="left: 372.627px; top: 377.333px; transform: scaleX(0.975881);">the </span><span style="left: 395.525px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(0.994993);">only </span><span style="left: 427.252px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(0.996262);">way </span><span style="left: 457.235px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(0.95201);">in </span><span style="left: 472.833px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(0.963736);">which </span><span style="left: 514.21px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(1.02016);">the </span><span style="left: 537.572px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(1.00126);">gap </span><span style="left: 564.818px; top: 377px; transform: scaleX(0.966257);">is </span><span style="left: 578.628px; top: 376.583px; transform: scaleX(1.03068);">to </span><span style="left: 595.023px; top: 376.583px; transform: scaleX(0.968902);">be </span><span style="left: 613.44px; top: 376.583px; transform: scaleX(0.965123);">bridged </span><span style="left: 664.485px; top: 376.583px; transform: scaleX(0.957566);">is </span><span style="left: 678.517px; top: 376.583px; transform: scaleX(0.967444);">for </span><span style="left: 700.248px; top: 376.583px; transform: scaleX(0.979379);">additional </span><span style="left: 766.358px; top: 376.167px; transform: scaleX(1.00222);">staffing </span><span style="left: 817.52px; top: 376.167px; transform: scaleX(0.995562);">resources </span><span style="left: 165.793px; top: 395.75px; transform: scaleX(0.994893);">to </span><span style="left: 181.858px; top: 395.75px; transform: scaleX(0.968902);">be </span><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);">provided</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);">...<span style="left: 182.188px; top: 685.417px; transform: scaleX(1.11498);"> </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 182.188px; top: 685.417px; transform: scaleX(1.11498);">Senator </span><span style="left: 237.565px; top: 685.417px; transform: scaleX(1.10387);">KIM </span><span style="left: 274.953px; top: 685.417px; transform: scaleX(1.12407);">CARR: </span><span style="left: 335.298px; top: 684.583px; transform: scaleX(0.759194);">I </span><span style="left: 344.027px; top: 684.583px; transform: scaleX(0.985604);">see. </span><span style="left: 372.132px; top: 684.167px; transform: scaleX(0.981366);">That's </span><span style="left: 414.085px; top: 684.167px; transform: scaleX(0.989149);">where </span><span style="left: 456.962px; top: 684.167px; transform: scaleX(0.980279);">the </span><span style="left: 480.77px; top: 684.167px; transform: scaleX(0.975929);">confusion </span><span style="left: 546.85px; top: 683.75px; transform: scaleX(0.976355);">lies. </span><span style="left: 577.752px; top: 683.75px; transform: scaleX(0.956629);">So, </span><span style="left: 602.025px; top: 683.75px; transform: scaleX(0.979741);">since </span><span style="left: 638.18px; top: 683.75px; transform: scaleX(0.975389);">August </span><span style="left: 687.683px; top: 683.75px; transform: scaleX(0.959814);">last </span><span style="left: 713.345px; top: 683.75px; transform: scaleX(0.996173);">year, </span><span style="left: 748.93px; top: 683.333px; transform: scaleX(0.968452);">you've </span><span style="left: 794.273px; top: 683.333px; transform: scaleX(0.959775);">been </span><span style="left: 827.608px; top: 683.333px; transform: scaleX(1.0012);">seeking </span><span style="left: 165.413px; top: 702.583px; transform: scaleX(0.960681);">additional </span><span style="left: 230.027px; top: 702.167px; transform: scaleX(0.988203);">support? </span><span style="left: 182.518px; top: 725.417px; transform: scaleX(1.01024);"> </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 182.518px; top: 725.417px; transform: scaleX(1.01024);">Ms </span><span style="left: 206.578px; top: 725.417px; transform: scaleX(1.10065);">Falk: </span><span style="left: 248.918px; top: 724.583px; transform: scaleX(0.987628);">Sometime </span><span style="left: 316.248px; top: 724.167px; transform: scaleX(0.969351);">after </span><span style="left: 348.205px; top: 724.167px; transform: scaleX(0.96531);">that </span><span style="left: 375.588px; top: 724.167px; transform: scaleX(0.95986);">date, </span><span style="left: 409.335px; top: 724.167px; transform: scaleX(1.00322);">Senator. </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 409.335px; top: 724.167px; transform: scaleX(1.00322);"> </span><span style="left: 182.188px; top: 747.417px; transform: scaleX(1.10761);">Senator </span><span style="left: 237.148px; top: 747.417px; transform: scaleX(1.10387);">KIM </span><span style="left: 273.37px; top: 747.417px; transform: scaleX(1.13176);">CARR: </span><span style="left: 332.178px; top: 746.583px; transform: scaleX(0.96669);">And </span><span style="left: 362.083px; top: 746.167px; transform: scaleX(0.957079);">what </span><span style="left: 396.083px; top: 746.167px; transform: scaleX(0.979286);">was </span><span style="left: 424.21px; top: 746.167px; transform: scaleX(0.997972);">the </span><span style="left: 447.155px; top: 746.167px; transform: scaleX(0.976053);">government's </span><span style="left: 533.937px; top: 745.75px; transform: scaleX(0.992589);">response? </span><span style="left: 182.518px; top: 769.833px; transform: scaleX(1.01024);">Ms </span><span style="left: 206.912px; top: 769.833px; transform: scaleX(1.08946);">Falk: </span><span style="left: 249.715px; top: 769px; transform: scaleX(1.00095);">The </span><span style="left: 278.407px; top: 769px; transform: scaleX(0.983628);">government </span><span style="left: 357.442px; top: 768.583px; transform: scaleX(0.983748);">has </span><span style="left: 381.832px; top: 768.583px; transform: scaleX(0.987176);">acknowledged </span><span style="left: 476.628px; top: 768.583px; transform: scaleX(0.953937);">my </span><span style="left: 500.353px; top: 768.583px; transform: scaleX(0.972007);">request </span><span style="left: 549.415px; top: 768.167px; transform: scaleX(0.974576);">and </span><span style="left: 577.235px; top: 768.167px; transform: scaleX(0.966257);">is </span><span style="left: 591.25px; top: 768.167px; transform: scaleX(0.978157);">working </span><span style="left: 646.212px; top: 768.167px; transform: scaleX(0.981685);">through </span><span style="left: 699.235px; top: 768.167px; transform: scaleX(0.94403);">it </span><span style="left: 712.485px; top: 767.75px; transform: scaleX(0.944913);">in </span><span style="left: 728.628px; top: 767.75px; transform: scaleX(0.990147);">terms </span><span style="left: 767.942px; top: 767.75px; transform: scaleX(0.974658);">of </span><span style="left: 784.273px; top: 767.75px; transform: scaleX(0.98125);">normal </span><span style="left: 832.69px; top: 767.75px; transform: scaleX(0.994589);">budget </span><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);">processes. </span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);">..</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 182.188px; top: 1023.83px; transform: scaleX(1.10761);">Senator </span><span style="left: 236.732px; top: 1023.42px; transform: scaleX(1.1185);">KIM </span><span style="left: 273.37px; top: 1023.42px; transform: scaleX(1.12407);">CARR: </span><span style="left: 332.168px; top: 1022.58px; transform: scaleX(0.946471);">So </span><span style="left: 352.273px; top: 1022.58px; transform: scaleX(0.942998);">how </span><span style="left: 382.21px; top: 1022.17px; transform: scaleX(0.976251);">much </span><span style="left: 420.422px; top: 1022.17px; transform: scaleX(0.994726);">did </span><span style="left: 444.595px; top: 1022.17px; transform: scaleX(0.9991);">you </span><span style="left: 471.832px; top: 1022.17px; transform: scaleX(0.953571);">ask </span><span style="left: 496.1px; top: 1022.17px; transform: scaleX(0.9836);">for? </span><span style="left: 182.518px; top: 1045.83px; transform: scaleX(1.01024);"> </span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 182.518px; top: 1045.83px; transform: scaleX(1.01024);">Ms </span><span style="left: 210.162px; top: 1045.83px; transform: scaleX(1.10065);">Falk: </span><span style="left: 261.335px; top: 1044.58px; transform: scaleX(1.00115);">Senator, </span><span style="left: 320.928px; top: 1044.58px; transform: scaleX(0.966709);">you </span><span style="left: 351.832px; top: 1044.58px; transform: scaleX(0.978476);">appreciate </span><span style="left: 423.377px; top: 1044.58px; transform: scaleX(0.986503);">that </span><span style="left: 454.962px; top: 1044.17px; transform: scaleX(0.980279);">the </span><span style="left: 481.652px; top: 1044.17px; transform: scaleX(0.980883);">information </span><span style="left: 564.132px; top: 1044.17px; transform: scaleX(0.943796);">I've </span><span style="left: 593.968px; top: 1043.75px; transform: scaleX(0.962233);">provided </span><span style="left: 656.212px; top: 1043.75px; transform: scaleX(0.994893);">to </span><span style="left: 675.99px; top: 1043.75px; transform: scaleX(0.983628);">government </span><span style="left: 758.485px; top: 1043.75px; transform: scaleX(1.00102);">is </span><span style="left: 776.628px; top: 1043.33px; transform: scaleX(0.973185);">through </span><span style="left: 832.69px; top: 1043.33px; transform: scaleX(0.977092);">budget </span><span style="left: 165.135px; top: 1063px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);">processes. </span><span style="left: 232.132px; top: 1063px; transform: scaleX(0.759194);">I </span><span style="left: 240.77px; top: 1063px; transform: scaleX(1.01072);">can </span><span style="left: 266.74px; top: 1062.58px; transform: scaleX(0.997481);">give </span><span style="left: 297.762px; top: 1062.58px; transform: scaleX(0.9991);">you </span><span style="left: 325.832px; top: 1062.58px; transform: scaleX(0.95581);">an </span><span style="left: 344.485px; top: 1062.58px; transform: scaleX(0.96678);">indication </span><span style="left: 410.21px; top: 1062.58px; transform: scaleX(0.9878);">that, </span><span style="left: 441.832px; top: 1062.17px; transform: scaleX(0.989057);">at </span><span style="left: 457.552px; top: 1062.17px; transform: scaleX(0.96618);">present, </span><span style="left: 510.212px; top: 1062.17px; transform: scaleX(0.953937);">my </span><span style="left: 534.1px; top: 1062.17px; transform: scaleX(0.998884);">funding </span><span style="left: 587.235px; top: 1061.75px; transform: scaleX(0.971135);">envelope </span><span style="left: 646.582px; top: 1061.75px; transform: scaleX(0.978222);">allows </span><span style="left: 691.267px; top: 1061.75px; transform: scaleX(0.967444);">for </span><span style="left: 712.997px; top: 1061.75px; transform: scaleX(0.990379);">around </span><span style="left: 761.075px; top: 1061.33px; transform: scaleX(0.948001);">19 </span><span style="left: 780.437px; top: 1061.33px; transform: scaleX(0.980688);">case </span><span style="left: 811.108px; top: 1061.33px; transform: scaleX(1.00814);">officers </span><span style="left: 862.96px; top: 1061.33px; transform: scaleX(1.00209);">to </span><span style="left: 165.25px; top: 1080.58px; transform: scaleX(0.944292);">work </span><span style="left: 200.358px; top: 1080.58px; transform: scaleX(0.969892);">on </span><span style="left: 220.227px; top: 1080.58px; transform: scaleX(0.924774);">FOI </span><span style="left: 248.353px; top: 1080.58px; transform: scaleX(0.988045);">reviews—there </span><span style="left: 348.248px; top: 1080.17px; transform: scaleX(0.978715);">are </span><span style="left: 370.998px; top: 1080.17px; transform: scaleX(0.980679);">additional </span><span style="left: 437.192px; top: 1080.17px; transform: scaleX(1.0457);">staff </span><span style="left: 469.25px; top: 1080.17px; transform: scaleX(0.982385);">who </span><span style="left: 499.667px; top: 1079.75px; transform: scaleX(0.96759);">work </span><span style="left: 535.942px; top: 1079.75px; transform: scaleX(0.969892);">on </span><span style="left: 555.795px; top: 1079.75px; transform: scaleX(1.00247);">the </span><span style="left: 579.81px; top: 1079.75px; transform: scaleX(0.924774);">FOI </span><span style="left: 608.1px; top: 1079.75px; transform: scaleX(0.963958);">function </span><span style="left: 663.377px; top: 1079.33px; transform: scaleX(0.96439);">more </span><span style="left: 698.69px; top: 1079.33px; transform: scaleX(0.981372);">broadly—but </span><span style="left: 785.272px; top: 1079.33px; transform: scaleX(0.992438);">just </span><span style="left: 812.1px; top: 1079px; transform: scaleX(0.999605);">looking </span><span style="left: 863.83px; top: 1079px; transform: scaleX(0.958377);">at </span><span style="left: 165.393px; top: 1098.58px; transform: scaleX(0.928174);">FOI </span><span style="left: 193.52px; top: 1098.58px; transform: scaleX(0.954461);">reviews, </span><span style="left: 248.628px; top: 1098.17px; transform: scaleX(0.98824);">there'd </span><span style="left: 295.023px; top: 1098.17px; transform: scaleX(0.987363);">need </span><span style="left: 328.628px; top: 1098.17px; transform: scaleX(0.959107);">to </span><span style="left: 344.692px; top: 1098.17px; transform: scaleX(0.968902);">be </span><span style="left: 362.582px; top: 1098.17px; transform: scaleX(0.958377);">at </span><span style="left: 378.1px; top: 1098.17px; transform: scaleX(0.945251);">least </span><span style="left: 409.832px; top: 1097.75px; transform: scaleX(0.999539);">a </span><span style="left: 420.692px; top: 1097.75px; transform: scaleX(1.02865);">half </span><span style="left: 449.235px; top: 1097.75px; transform: scaleX(0.976921);">increase </span><span style="left: 504.068px; top: 1097.75px; transform: scaleX(0.944913);">in </span><span style="left: 519.378px; top: 1097.75px; transform: scaleX(1.00247);">the </span><span style="left: 542.69px; top: 1097.33px; transform: scaleX(0.985822);">number </span><span style="left: 594.358px; top: 1097.33px; transform: scaleX(1.06105);">of </span><span style="left: 610.962px; top: 1097.33px; transform: scaleX(0.973544);">those </span><span style="left: 646.775px; top: 1097.33px; transform: scaleX(0.986062);">staff.</span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 646.775px; top: 1097.33px; transform: scaleX(0.986062);"> </span><span style="left: 181.772px; top: 1121.42px; transform: scaleX(1.11683);">Senator </span><span style="left: 236.732px; top: 1121.42px; transform: scaleX(1.1185);">KIM </span><span style="left: 273.37px; top: 1121.42px; transform: scaleX(1.12407);">CARR: </span><span style="left: 332.273px; top: 1120.17px; transform: scaleX(0.948369);">What </span><span style="left: 368.595px; top: 1120.17px; transform: scaleX(0.981105);">you </span><span style="left: 395.788px; top: 1120.17px; transform: scaleX(0.977059);">mean </span><span style="left: 433.44px; top: 1119.75px; transform: scaleX(0.995581);">by </span><span style="left: 452.838px; top: 1119.75px; transform: scaleX(0.969383);">'a </span><span style="left: 467.023px; top: 1119.75px; transform: scaleX(1.05458);">half? </span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 467.023px; top: 1119.75px; transform: scaleX(1.05458);"> </span><span style="left: 182.102px; top: 1143.83px; transform: scaleX(1.03273);">Ms </span><span style="left: 206.162px; top: 1143.83px; transform: scaleX(1.10065);">Falk: </span><span style="left: 248.595px; top: 1143px; transform: scaleX(0.981862);">A </span><span style="left: 263.858px; top: 1142.58px; transform: scaleX(1.02865);">half </span><span style="left: 291.832px; top: 1142.58px; transform: scaleX(1.00378);">again. </span><span style="left: 181.772px; top: 1166.17px; transform: scaleX(1.11683);">Senator </span><span style="left: 236.732px; top: 1165.83px; transform: scaleX(1.10688);">KIM </span><span style="left: 273.37px; top: 1165.83px; transform: scaleX(1.12407);">CARR: </span><span style="left: 332.168px; top: 1165px; transform: scaleX(0.960998);">So—</span><span style="left: 182.102px; top: 1188.17px; transform: scaleX(1.01024);">Ms </span><span style="left: 206.162px; top: 1188.17px; transform: scaleX(1.10065);">Falk: </span><span style="left: 248.595px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.989897);">Another </span><span style="left: 304.275px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.986884);">nine </span><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);">staff. </span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);">... <br /></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 492.008px; transform: scaleX(0.919274);">Senator KIM CARR: What will that cost in terms of your normal profile?</span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 492.008px; transform: scaleX(0.919274);">..</span></span></span></span><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 492.008px; transform: scaleX(0.919274);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 693.442px; transform: scaleX(0.891996);"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 492.008px; transform: scaleX(0.919274);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 693.442px; transform: scaleX(0.891996);">Senator KIM CARR: Can you take that on notice, please?</span> </span> </span></span></span></span></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"> <span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);"><b><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 793.942px; transform: scaleX(0.93109);">The OAIC subsequently provided this response </span></b><span style="left: 349.633px; top: 793.942px; transform: scaleX(0.946187);"><b>to the question</b>:</span><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 832.942px; transform: scaleX(0.92566);"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);"><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 832.942px; transform: scaleX(0.92566);">"The Office of the Australian Information Commissioner has estimated that the annual cost to fund nine (9) </span><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 855.342px; transform: scaleX(0.923323);">additional staff to undertake FOI regulatory work, including processing IC review applications, would be </span><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 877.742px; transform: scaleX(0.941923);">approximately</span><span style="left: 196.633px; top: 877.742px; transform: scaleX(0.937927);"> A$1.65 million with an additional capital amount of approximately A$0.3 million for </span><span style="left: 85.1px; top: 900.142px; transform: scaleX(0.931236);">accommodation </span><span style="left: 210.233px; top: 900.142px; transform: scaleX(0.949546);">in the first year</span>." </span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);">..... <br /></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 199.968px; top: 395.333px; transform: scaleX(0.966463);"><span style="left: 165.552px; top: 787.333px; transform: scaleX(0.963525);"><span style="left: 334.775px; top: 1187px; transform: scaleX(0.974979);">We live in hope....<br /></span></span></span></span></span></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-71042303485945717432020-08-20T15:10:00.002+10:002020-08-20T15:10:48.712+10:00Sports rorts-would Sir Humphrey be proud?<p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Some exchanges during the two hours Secretary of Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet Phil Gaetjen spent before the <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Fcommsen%2F756e3989-c649-4354-9c12-41d9bc759edb%2F0001;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Fcommsen%2F756e3989-c649-4354-9c12-41d9bc759edb%2F0000%22" target="_blank">Senate </a></span></span><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation"><span class="sumLink"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Fcommsen%2F756e3989-c649-4354-9c12-41d9bc759edb%2F0001;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Fcommsen%2F756e3989-c649-4354-9c12-41d9bc759edb%2F0000%22" target="_blank">Select Committee</a> on Administration of Sports Grants </span> Committee on 22 July- the sports rorts committee- shouldn't stay buried away in the Hansard.<br /></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">The backdrop is questioning about Mr Gaetjen's report undertaken at the request of the Prime Minister that led to the minister's resignation. And is subject to a claim of public interest immunity on grounds it is a document prepared for submission to cabinet so not available to the Committee. <br /></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Headings dedicated to the memory of Sir Humphrey Appleby: <br /></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation"><b>Well, I did talk to the Minister </b><br /></span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
As part of your report, you didn't interview the Prime Minister specifically?</span><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-WitnessName"> </span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No.</span></span></span>
</p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> <span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER</span></span> <span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation"></a>Did you interview any of Mr Morrison's staff as part of your report?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No. My report was with respect to the minister's apparent breaches of the status of the ministerial code of conduct.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"> <span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span><span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation"></a>Did you interview any of Senator McKenzie's staff?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I certainly had
discussions with her chief of staff, knowing of course that, when I
conducted my inquiry, the senator was in a different ministerial
position. But I had no discussions with her staff when she was Minister
for Sport.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span><span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation"></a>So, as part of this, you didn't interview the staff of Minister McKenzie's office when she was Minister for Sport?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I think she was Minister for Sport months before the inquiry happened.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Yes. So you didn't go back to speak to those</span>
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No.The minister was responsible for the actions of her staff, so the interview with her, I thought, was sufficient.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b><span class="HPS-Normal">Procedures, process? </span></b><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-WitnessName"><b>Nothing to worry about there!</b><br /></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span>.... I think what we did was, through my report ... basically approach the outcomes of
all three rounds of the funding. I wasn't necessarily interested in the
process; it was the outcomes of the funding round compared to—</span></span></span>
</p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>But the process is pretty important here, isn't it, in
terms of allegations of pork-barrelling and political interference? You
would have thought the process leading to those decisions—</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> The process was fully outlined in the Auditor-General's report.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Indeed, which led to you being commissioned to conduct
this assessment of whether fairness under the ministerial code of
conduct was adhered to. The process is pretty important.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I was asked to ask
about apparent breaches of the ministerial code of conduct. I was not
asked to audit the sports administration program. That was my role.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER</span></span>....... I would have thought
the process, including the communications between the Prime Minister's
office and the minister for sport's office at the time was pretty
central to you forming a view about whether there had or had not been a
misconduct or whether the fairness obligations of the ministerial code
of conduct had been met.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I will just repeat
what I said: I was asked under paragraph 7.4 of the standards. The Prime
Minister may seek advice from the secretariat of the Department of the
Prime Minister and Cabinet on any matters within the standards. My focus
was on whether the minister breached the standards.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">The Auditor-General had done a report
with respect to the administration of the program, and I used that
report largely as the basis, with other information collected from the
Department of Health and from questions asked of Sport Australia and
others. ......
In the Auditor-General's report there was no mention of discussions or
emails between the Prime Minister's office and the minister. In fact,
it's the minister's actions that I was inquiring into.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b> The </b><b><b>Caretaker Conventions</b> file was closed after sending a memo, no reason to open it since.</b></span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Mr <span class="HPS-WitnessName">Gaetjens</span>, your
report also doesn't note the two decision briefs authorising the
expenditure of the $40 million that was sent to the Prime Minister's
office in the hours after the election was called and the caretaker
conventions were in place. Why is that?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Because it wasn't known at the time</span> </span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER In </span></span>the evidence that you looked at, in terms of
formulating your report, that did not come to your attention: that,
following caretaker kicking in, decisions were still being made between
the minister's and the Prime Minister's offices? You weren't aware of
that? No-one told you that?</span></span></span>
</p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>So the first you knew about that was in one of these hearings?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Correct...</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Were you concerned about that?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Not at the time, because I wasn't aware of it.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>No? Were you concerned when you found out that
decisions were being made after caretaker had kicked in, in allocating
taxpayer funds?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Decisions can be
made after the caretaker period starts. Usually, when caretaker starts,
departments are advised to follow the guidance and advice of the Prime
Minister and Cabinet. It is the departments and ministers who keep on
making those decisions. The PM&C does not take over the
decision-making ability. Everything is considered in the context of the
transaction or decision being made with respect to scope, scale,
importance and sensitivity, so I can't give you a one-size-fits-all
answer as to whether a decision should or should not have been made in
caretaker. It would relate to the actual circumstances of it being made.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Well, we've got an actual circumstance here. Does it
bother you that $40 million of taxpayer funds were signed off after
caretaker kicked in, going to projects in seats that the government was
trying to win? Does it bother you, or do you think it's an appropriate
use of taxpayer funds?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I would have to look in more detail at the actual decisions that were made.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Oh, come on! Mr Gaetjens, you're the head of the
Public Service. It doesn't bother you that taxpayers' funds were being
spent after caretaker kicked in. Extraordinary!</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> If those decisions
were made with the advice or guidance of Prime Minister and Cabinet, of
which at that time of course I was not a part—</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>Were they? Have you checked? Do PM&C have a view, or didn't they mind either?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> My understanding is that advice was not sought, but I'll leave that to people who were there at the time.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> But, when
you became aware through the work of this committee or through media
reports that it had happened, surely you would have then gone, 'We need
to have a look at this'?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> By that time the minister had resigned.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Sure.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Why does one need to have a look at something when the minister has resigned?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> The minister put out a statement saying that she had no knowledge that these changes were made after she signed the brief.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'm sorry, I've got
no role in that. The event had happened. The minister had resigned.
There was this inquiry. There'd been an Auditor-General's inquiry. What
else could I do? I was asked to inquire about the minister's apparent
breaches of the ministerial standards. I did that. She resigned.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes, and then the
minister put out a statement when people became aware that there were
changes made after she'd signed the brief saying that she'd no knowledge
of that. Surely, as the head of the PM&C, you would go: 'Wow, what
has gone on there? We need to get to the bottom of that.'</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> As the head of PM&C and as a public servant, I'm an adviser, not a decision-maker.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER</span></span> But you lead the Public Service, and appropriate
adherence to caretaker conventions is pretty fundamental to an
independent and effective public service. Surely you have a view. It's
extraordinary.</span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><b>The Postal Service? That Trump fellow is onto something</b></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><b></b>Senator GALLAGHER:....In terms of commissioning the report,
Mr Gaetjens, Ms Foster told the finance and public administration
committee the Prime Minister or his office provided oral advice of the
request on Friday 17 January, and a letter dated 17 January was received
on Monday 20 January. Does that adhere to your recollection?</span></span></span>
</p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes</span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">.</span>....<span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"> Senator GALLAGHER</span>.... Why did the letter take until Monday 20 January to turn up, just out of interest?<span class="HPS-WitnessName"> </span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I have no idea.</span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b><span class="HPS-Normal">For heavens sake, we can't have the name of a senior staffer to the PM brandied about!</span></b></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Rice In the time I've got left, I want to go to issues
regarding the breaches of the ministerial standards. You said in
response to Senator Gallagher's question that the request for you to
undertake the work was a call from a senior adviser. What was the role
of that adviser?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I didn't say 'senior adviser'. It was a senior person in the Prime Minister's office.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Rice </span>Can you tell me what their role was?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I think that would identify them.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Rice </span>Was it the senior adviser for infrastructure and sport, or the senior adviser for backbench liaisons?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FN26%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
</a>Seantor Abetz That would identify them!</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> It was a senior
adviser in the Prime Minister's office—sorry, it was a senior staff
member in the Prime Minister's office, not necessarily a position of
senior adviser. Can I also say that that followed with a letter from the
Prime Minister.</span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"> </span><span class="HPS-Normal"><b>Can I tell you the legal authority for the minister to make decisions? No I can't</b></span><br /></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>I go now to the legal authority. You say the guidelines authorise
Senator McKenzie to provide final approval for projects and authorise
the minister to take other factors into account when deciding which
projects to fund. You conclude that Senator McKenzie acted within the
remit of the guidelines. Regardless of what the guidelines say, it
matters whether the decision-making itself was lawful. Would you agree?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I think that has been covered by people more confident than I to talk about legal issues.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>So can you tell us what was the legal authority for Senator McKenzie and not for Sport Australia to be the decision-maker?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No, I can't. I am not a lawyer. I think that should be addressed to other people.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>But you have formed the view that the guidelines
authorised her to make those decisions and therefore those decisions
were lawful?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> My inquiry covered a
number of decisions that had been made. They were historical decisions
that had been made. I then took upon the fact that those decisions had
been made. I was then asked to look at whether in making those decisions
there was a breach of the standards. That is the logic that I follow. I
think I had also known at that time that the Prime Minister had asked
the Attorney-General to provide a view about the legal status.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>The Auditor-General said he can find no evident legal
authority for Senator McKenzie's decision-making. Is the Auditor-General
wrong?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I don't have a view on that. It is not in my purview or competence to answer that question.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>As head of the Public Service, I presume this is a
matter of interest to you about legal decision-making. Have you taken
any advice based on what the Auditor-General found, because I presume it
has wider application across the Public Service than just this program.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I am aware now of what the Attorney-General found.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>You are talking there to the Attorney-General's finding about the legal decision-making?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>The University of Melbourne's Professor Cheryl Saunders and Professor Michael Crommelin said:</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Small">If the grants were made pursuant to
the Sports Commission Act, they are invalid for failure to comply with
the provisions of the Act. The Act confers on the Commission, not the
Minister, the power to make grants for the purposes of the Act.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Are Professor Saunders and Professor Crommelin wrong?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I would have no
confidence to answer that question. I am not a lawyer, I do not have
legal qualifications, I am not a practising lawyer, so, again, I don't
think it is an answer I can provide. All I do know is that the
Attorney-General has reached his own view and I think the government
would probably act according to what the Attorney-General thought.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>The University of Sydney's Professor Anne Twomey says
there appears to be no legal basis for Senator Mackenzie to be the
decision-maker. Is Professor Twomey wrong?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> My previous answer applies.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
</a>University of Adelaide's Emeritus Professor in-law,
Geoff Linnell says, 'Senator McKenzie likely had lack of legal authority
to either approve or participate in the decision making.' Is Professor
Linnell wrong?</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> My previous answer applies.</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER </span></span>So you just rely on the Attorney-General's advice to
you or advice to the government?.....</span></span></span>
</p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">
</span></span><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> A legal question was asked of a legally competent person....</span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span class="HPS-Normal">....................................... <br /></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><b><span class="HPS-Normal">Added comment:</span></b></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Fcommsen%2F572ab3f8-cb12-47a3-b920-7b079239068a%2F0004;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Fcommsen%2F572ab3f8-cb12-47a3-b920-7b079239068a%2F0000%22" target="_blank">Next day </a>former Deputy Secretary of the Department of Finance Stephen Bartos testified about the legality issue thus<span class="HPS-Normal"> </span></span></span></span></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"></span></span></span></span></p><blockquote><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">"My view is that the minister didn't have the
authority to make those grants under section 83 of the Australian
Constitution. Maybe it's because I worked for many, many years in the
finance department, but I had it drummed into me that, under section 83,
no money shall be drawn from the Treasury of the Commonwealth except
under appropriation made by law—that is, ministers can't spend money
unless the parliament has given them the authority to spend that money.
Without that clear authority, ministers can't just spend as they wish.
There are circumstances, like the advance to the finance minister, where
ministers are given some discretion. But the parliament, in the case of
the advance, puts a number of reporting and accountability requirements
around that, precisely because it's unusual. Ministers are constrained
by what the legislation says, and it does appear, looking at the
legislation that governs Sport Australia, that not only did they not
delegate to the minister the powe</span></span>r to make grants; they actually may not
have been able to, in any case."</span></blockquote><span class="HPS-Normal"> <br /></span><p></p><p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;"><span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
</p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-41360585754902509792020-08-15T16:45:00.002+10:002020-08-15T16:47:31.966+10:00Commonwealth Government the 'one fly in the ointment' on assistance to Ruby Princess inquiry<p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Extract from <a href="https://www.dpc.nsw.gov.au/assets/dpc-nsw-gov-au/publications/The-Special-Commission-of-Inquiry-into-the-Ruby-Princess-Listing-1628/Report-of-the-Special-Commission-of-Inquiry-into-the-Ruby-Princess.pdf" target="_blank">Report</a> of Special Commission of Inquiry into the Ruby Princess conducted by </span></span><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">Bret Walker SC and released by NSW Government on14 August<br /></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 225px; top: 1013.58px; transform: scaleX(0.858442);">1.53 The one fly in the ointment so far as assistance to this Commission goes, is the stance </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1036.42px; transform: scaleX(0.94771);">of the Commonwealth. I hasten to exclude the lawyers for the Commonwealth, </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1059.25px; transform: scaleX(0.915381);">whose written assistance and production of materials are very much appreciated, </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1082.09px; transform: scaleX(0.906974);">in the circumstances. Those circumstances are dominated by the assertion on the </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1104.93px; transform: scaleX(0.936603);">Commonwealth’s part of an immunity from any compulsory process of a State’s </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1127.77px; transform: scaleX(0.871429);">Special Commission of Inquiry. A Summons to a Commonwealth officer to attend and </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1150.6px; transform: scaleX(0.894713);">give evidence about the grant of pratique for the Ruby Princess was met with steps </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1173.44px; transform: scaleX(0.919699);">towards proceedings in the High Court of Australia. Quite how this met the Prime </span><span style="left: 225px; top: 1196.28px; transform: scaleX(0.900079);">Minister’s early assurance of full co-operation with the Commission escapes me. </span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 225px; top: 1196.28px; transform: scaleX(0.900079);"><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 213.412px; transform: scaleX(0.875072);">1.54 This waste of time and resources, when time, in particular, was always pressing, was </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 236.25px; transform: scaleX(0.887966);">most regrettable. As the quality and helpfulness of the voluntary submissions by the </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 259.087px; transform: scaleX(0.891942);">Commonwealth demonstrated, there was no problem of resources or governmental </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 281.925px; transform: scaleX(0.961654);">embarrassment conducing against the Commonwealth fully co-operating with </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 304.762px; transform: scaleX(0.955504);">this Commission, by providing one of its officers to give evidence. It may even </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 327.6px; transform: scaleX(0.947534);">be that, had this happened, the confusion about the ABF noted in [1.47] above </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 350.437px; transform: scaleX(0.956931);">could have been avoided. It seems that this practical approach was swamped </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 373.275px; transform: scaleX(0.938478);">by a determination never to concede, apparently on Constitutional grounds, the </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 396.112px; transform: scaleX(0.889396);">power of a State Parliament to compel evidence to be provided to a State executive </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 418.95px; transform: scaleX(0.924216);">inquiry (such as a Royal Commission or a Special Commission of Inquiry) by the </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 441.787px; transform: scaleX(0.915344);">Commonwealth or any of its officers, agencies or authorities. </span><span style="left: 191.667px; top: 478.585px; transform: scaleX(0.863343);"> </span></span></span></span></p><p><span face="" style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 17.5px; left: 225px; top: 1196.28px; transform: scaleX(0.900079);"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;">1.55 <span style="left: 233.333px; top: 476.245px; transform: scaleX(0.902996);">This is also not the place to set out arguments for and against this Commonwealth </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 499.083px; transform: scaleX(0.911324);">position. As a South Australian Royal Commissioner, I have previously expressed </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 521.92px; transform: scaleX(0.951247);">views contrary to the Commonwealth’s stated position. I maintain those views. </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 544.758px; transform: scaleX(0.915755);">Further, I continue to believe that this difference about something as fundamental </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 567.595px; transform: scaleX(0.893626);">as a State’s legislative power to bind the Commonwealth to assist in a State inquiry </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 590.433px; transform: scaleX(0.913942);">just as every other legal person in Australia would be obliged to do, disfigures the </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 613.27px; transform: scaleX(0.874978);">area of co-operative federalism. For example, in this case, it is of great governmental </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 636.108px; transform: scaleX(0.879552);">significance to New South Wales to study and inform the public health arrangements </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 658.945px; transform: scaleX(0.921364);">by which the risk of COVID-19 on the Ruby Princess was addressed. One hopes </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 681.783px; transform: scaleX(0.941656);">the Commonwealth also perceives that significance. But until this constitutional </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 704.62px; transform: scaleX(0.880109);">impasse is cleared, the State should re-consider its arrangements such as under the </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 727.423px; transform: scaleX(0.866401);">Biosecurity Act</span><span style="left: 333.836px; top: 727.458px; transform: scaleX(0.892317);">, so as to procure advance approval for mutual access to information </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 750.295px; transform: scaleX(0.905742);">by the co-operating polities. Meanwhile, perhaps the </span><span style="left: 604.123px; top: 750.26px; transform: scaleX(0.865684);">Special Commission of Inquiry </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 773.098px; transform: scaleX(0.796328);">Act 1983</span><span style="left: 289.298px; top: 773.133px; transform: scaleX(0.869916);"> should itself be reviewed and modernised (along Victorian lines, perhaps) so </span><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 795.97px; transform: scaleX(0.889728);">as to clear the decks for argument only about the alleged Commonwealth immunity.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span face="" style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 17.5px; left: 225px; top: 1196.28px; transform: scaleX(0.900079);"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 795.97px; transform: scaleX(0.889728);">................................... <br /></span></span></span></span></p><p><span face="" style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 17.5px; left: 225px; top: 1196.28px; transform: scaleX(0.900079);"><span style="font-size: medium;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span style="left: 233.333px; top: 795.97px; transform: scaleX(0.889728);">Bret Walker's <a href="https://www.environment.sa.gov.au/topics/river-murray/about-the-river/murray-darling-basin-commission">report </a>on the Murray Darling Commission includes many reference to Commonwealth government transparency or lack thereof and a Chapter (18) on Public Disclosure</span> </span></span><br /></span></p>Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-8885253493053341452020-06-01T17:58:00.001+10:002020-06-02T09:14:29.872+10:00A rose by any name-is the National Cabinet part of Federal Cabinet?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Or operate as such?</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Putting aside political pressures that may make this difficult there are other issues that make this more complex and complicated than the Prime Minister and officials have suggested to date.</span></span><br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><a href="https://foi-privacy.blogspot.com/2020/05/transparency-during-crisis-business-as.html#.XtSoXMZS8UQ">New Federalism</a></span></span></b><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Prime Minister's <a href="https://www.pm.gov.au/media/press-conference-australian-parliament-house-act-29may20">announcement </a>of the abolition of the Council of Australian Governments and its replacement, 'permanently' by the National Cabinet which will form part of "a completely new system", was welcomed as a step in the direction of a co-ordinated approach as our federation faces the challenge of moving beyond the current crisis. </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /> </span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It reminds of the many calls and attempts to address problems in the framework and operation of our system of shared federal-state responsibilities that haven't got anywhere or far, most recently the Abbott government in 2013 announcing a Reform of the Federation white paper process that ran into the sand and was officially <a href="https://www.themandarin.com.au/64341-happened-federalism-white-paper/">dumped</a> in April 2016.</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span>
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Importance of confidentiality </span></span></b><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Prime Minister said the reason the National Cabinet has worked "is it has actually operated as a Cabinet. And that means it operates within Cabinet rules and it operates under the Federal Cabinet's rules and that relates to the security of documents, process, procedure.. and from here on committees and task forces-"Ministerial Cabinet subcommittees, if you like"- will operate on that basis as well. It was important that prime ministers, premiers,treasurers have discussions "(w)ithout sort of lifting the veil, I mean</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">.." </span></span><br /> </span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The PM has foreshadowed more information about the new system is still to come.</span></span><b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span></span></span></span></span></b><br />
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></b>
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">PMC explains</span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">But as of 13 May when PMC Secretary Phillip Gaetjens appeared before the <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Fcommsen%2F608011bb-99d9-4b10-9fa8-521eaa899fa5%2F0000%22">Senate Covid 19 committee</a> he was clear and definite about the National Cabinet:</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"Senator PATRICK: In relation to the national cabinet, I heard you saying at the start—and I apologise; I came in late—that, in effect, it is part of the federal cabinet?Mr Gaetjens : Yes."</span></span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Earlier Mr Gaetjens read from PMC's submission to the Committee:</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"By the agreement of all members, the National Cabinet is constituted as a Cabinet Office Policy Committee and operated according to longstanding conventions of Cabinet government, including the guiding principles of collective responsibility and solidarity. In his capacity as Chair, the Prime Minister provides frequent public updates on National Cabinet decisions where appropriate. The Commonwealth and state and territory governments individually remain responsible for the implementation of decisions arising from the National Cabinet."</span></span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It also emerged during questions that generally but not always the Commonwealth has been taking the positions it takes to national cabinet through its own cabinet first; on procedures, the national cabinet doesn't have a handbook but as "it is constituted as a cabinet office policy committee, I think the section of the (cabinet) handbook that relates to that committee would apply"; and without responding specifically to a question whether decisions made by the National Cabinet need to go back to the full cabinet for endorsement, a comment that steps are taken as appropriate as outlined in the handbook. </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Public interest immunity and FOI</b></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The issue of transparency and confidentiality surrounding the National Cabinet and the "Ministerial Cabinet subcommittees" is sure to crop up in requests and orders for information and production of documents in Parliament which doesn’t have a workable mechanism to resolve contentious claims of public interest immunity, and through FOI processes which do. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span>
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">A relevant FOI precedent -Howard's kitchen cabinet</span></span></b><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Merely saying the National Cabinet and committees operate under the same rules as Cabinet and therefore enjoy the FOI exemption that applies to cabinet documents doesn’t make it so.<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"> </span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">In 2010, the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, while acknowledging it was for the Prime Minister of the day to determine the shape and structure of the Cabinet system and how it was to operate, decided this didn't extend to simply categorising a committee as a cabinet committee if it wasn't. </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Deputy President Forgie (in usual detailed fashion) decided in that case that a Howard government <a href="https://bit.ly/3gD08lu">"cabinet committee’ </a>of senior ministers lacked the 'essential characteristics’ to make it so.Documents that may have attracted the exemption if relevant to the operation of the cabinet or other cabinet committees were not exempt in this case. </span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"When I have regard to all of the matters to which I have referred, I have concluded that the Senior Ministers’ group was not a committee of Cabinet. It was treated as a group that was analogous to a committee of that sort but its being treated in that way does not make it a committee of that sort. There is no evidence of Cabinet’s having decided that the Senior Ministers would be able to make decisions on certain matters that would be binding upon Cabinet itself, as in the case of the NSC, or that their decisions required Cabinet’s discussion and ratification, as in the case of decisions of the ERC. If the Senior Ministers were a committee of Cabinet, it would be expected that there would have been some formal decision about the status of their decisions. On the evidence I have, there is none. It would be expected that there would be some reference to the work of the Senior Ministers in material available to the public or at least to the legislative arm of government. An obvious place to reveal its existence would have been in PM&C’s Annual Reports. If not there, then it would be expected that information about its existence would have been available from the Cabinet Secretariat as directed by the Cabinet Handbook but it was not. There is no reference to be found. Unquestioningly, the former Prime Minister was within his rights to create the Senior Ministers’ group and to direct its tasks as he would. Having regard to the findings I have made, however, I am not satisfied on the evidence that I have that he established it as a Cabinet committee either on an ongoing or an ad hoc basis."[149] </span></span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">(The decision in Telstra Corporation Limited and Department of Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy <a href="http://www6.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/AATA/2010/118.html">[2010] AATA 118</a> (15 February 2010) was not appealed.)</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b> </b></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>A few thoughts on how the National Cabinet might stack up if subject to similar examination:</b><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span>
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<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">1. Who established the National Cabinet-COAG or the Federal Cabinet?</span></span></i><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">According to PMC, "COAG agreed on 13 March 2020 to establish a National Cabinet." Nothing on the record about a federal cabinet decision.</span></span><br />
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<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">2. Is the National Cabinet a Cabinet Office Policy Committee as PMC submitted?</span></span></i></div>
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It is well established that Cabinet can and does have cabinet committees. One of which is the Cabinet Office Policy Committee.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Committee lists only one permanent member, the Prime Minister</span></span>.<br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">As of 1 June there is no mention in the <a href="https://www.directory.gov.au/commonwealth-parliament/cabinet/cabinet-committees/cabinet-office-policy-committee">Government Directory</a> of any other 'Cabinet Policy Committee' or the "National Cabinet."</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Directory states the Committee "is responsible for preliminary discussion of items during the early policy development phase that are intended for subsequent consideration by ERC and/or Cabinet. Decisions of the COP must be endorsed by the Cabinet."</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The National Cabinet role and functions that the Prime Minister has talked about publicly are outside the terms of reference of the committee.<br /> </span></span><br />
<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">3 Can a policy committee or any committee of cabinet make binding decisions?</span></span></i><br />
<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"> </span></span></i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Apparently not.</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Extract from the <a href="https://www.pmc.gov.au/resource-centre/government/cabinet-handbook">Cabinet Handbook</a></span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"5 Generally, Cabinet committee decisions are brought forward to the Cabinet for endorsement, so the Cabinet retains the ultimate power of decision. While some Cabinet committees may make final decisions for security or practical reasons, most Cabinet committee decisions are not acted on until they have been endorsed by the Cabinet, or the Cabinet Secretary agrees that decisions can be implemented without the Cabinet’s endorsement because they are urgent. In such cases, the Cabinet should be briefed on the Cabinet committee decision as soon as practicable. The Cabinet may alter a Cabinet committee decision or ask a Cabinet committee to consider a matter further." </span></span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It is unclear if, when and how the National Cabinet complies with the rule that that applies to the Cabinet office policy committee: "Decisions of the COP must be endorsed by the Cabinet."</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span><i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">4. Can the Cabinet Handbook in its current form apply as Mr Gaetjens testified?</span></span></i><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Hardly. </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"> </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Handbook (1) defines Cabinet as "the council of senior ministers who are empowered by the Government to take binding decisions on its behalf." The words 'Minister", "Ministers', "ministers' and "Government" are used frequently throughout the handbook's 30 pages. </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The context in every case indicates the word means "federal government' minister, that is a person sworn in by the Governor General and who heads a government agency.</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Ministers not in the Cabinet (including assistant ministers) and officials ("generally limited to the most senior levels of the Public Service (secretaries, agency heads and senior executive service band 3) and ministerial staff (chiefs of staff)" can be co-opted to attend</span></span>. <span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"> </span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">There is nothing to suggest that a state or territory Premier or Minister can be a member of a federal government cabinet or committee.</span></span><br />
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<i><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">4. Does the National Cabinet operate or could it operate in accordance with the principles and values that apply to cabinet proceedings?</span></span></i><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">More than challenging and difficult.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Extracts from the Handbook (not going into issues about document handling and other matters considered in the Forgie decision): </span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">18 Collective responsibility is a long standing and integral part of the Cabinet system. It requires that whatever the range of private views put forward by ministers in the Cabinet, once decisions are arrived at and announced they are supported by all ministers...</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">19 In practice, a decision of the Cabinet is binding on all members of the Government.<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;">.</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;">
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">25 The principle of collective responsibility requires the strict confidentiality of all Cabinet proceedings and documentation..</span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;">
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">26 All attendees are responsible for ensuring that what is considered by the Cabinet, when and how it does so, and the decision the Cabinet reaches on particular matters remain confidential.<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;">..</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;">
</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">28 Effective Cabinet confidentiality requires the protection of Cabinet deliberations not only at the time an issue was current but also in the future... </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: black; line-height: 115%;"><b> </b><b> </b></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">32 In upholding the Cabinet guiding principles and operational values, ministers must:</span></span></div>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">a. not talk publicly about matters that they propose to bring to the Cabinet announce a major new policy without previous Cabinet approval </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">b. not express private views on Government policies nor speak about or otherwise become involved in a ministerial colleague’s portfolio without first consulting that colleague and possibly the Prime Minister</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">c. understand that absolute confidentiality of Cabinet discussions is essential</span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">d. adopt a strict need to know approach to any briefing they give to their staff and departmental officers on the outcome of Cabinet decisions </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">e. enforce the strictest discipline in their offices and departments to avoid Cabinet agenda items or decisions being either knowingly or unknowingly disclosed</span></span>.<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">.................... <br /><br />Sure to to be a hot topic when Parliament resumes on 10 June. </span></span></div>
</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-32168176430528819632020-05-31T16:09:00.001+10:002020-05-31T16:09:42.578+10:00High Court ruling on 'Palace letters' case paves way to learn more about The Dismissal - and our Constitution<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<h1 class="legacy">
<img height="320" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/338423/original/file-20200528-51509-rzzu5r.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" width="317" /> </h1>
<h1 class="legacy">
<span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span class="attribution"><span class="source">National Archives of Australia</span></span></span></span>
</h1>
<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/anne-twomey-6072">Anne Twomey</a>, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/university-of-sydney-841">University of Sydney</a></i><br />
<i> </i>
<br />
<br />
The <a href="http://eresources.hcourt.gov.au/showCase/2020/HCA/19">High Court has ruled</a> that Sir John Kerr’s correspondence with the queen comprises “Commonwealth records”. This means access to them is now in Australian hands and can no longer be vetoed by the private secretary to the queen. <br />
This correspondence, which includes Kerr’s briefings to the queen on the political crisis prior to the <a href="https://theconversation.com/australian-politics-explainer-gough-whitlams-dismissal-as-prime-minister-74148">dismissal of the Whitlam government</a> on November 11 1975, and his explanation to her afterwards of why he exercised this power, have so far been kept from public view.<br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-the-palace-letters-case-and-what-will-the-high-court-consider-131000">Explainer: what is the 'palace letters' case and what will the High Court consider?</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
The High Court’s decision opens the possibility that we will finally see the last pieces of factual evidence about The Dismissal – revealing the concerns and reasoning of the governor-general, as events occurred, without the gloss of hindsight. <br />
It could even allow this festering wound in our political history to be healed, once all the information has been revealed. But it depends now on what the National Archives does next.<br />
<h2>
How were these letters treated until now?</h2>
Until now, the National Archives has claimed all correspondence it holds between governors-general and the queen, even when written in their official capacities, is “personal” and not a “Commonwealth record”.<br />
<br />
This means there was no legal obligation on the National Archives to provide public access to these letters. Instead, the National Archives had stated it could only release these documents in accordance with the conditions placed on them by the person who lodged them with the National Archives.<br />
But it let those conditions be changed on the instructions of the queen in 1991 so that her private secretary and the secretary of the governor-general held a veto over the release of any such correspondence.<br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/australian-politics-explainer-gough-whitlams-dismissal-as-prime-minister-74148">Australian politics explainer: Gough Whitlam's dismissal as prime minister</a>
</b>
</i>
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<figure class="align-right ">
<img alt="" height="200" sizes="(min-width: 1466px) 754px, (max-width: 599px) 100vw, (min-width: 600px) 600px, 237px" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=237&fit=clip" srcset="https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=900&fit=crop&dpr=1 600w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=600&h=900&fit=crop&dpr=2 1200w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=600&h=900&fit=crop&dpr=3 1800w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&h=1131&fit=crop&dpr=1 754w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=30&auto=format&w=754&h=1131&fit=crop&dpr=2 1508w, https://images.theconversation.com/files/338490/original/file-20200529-96705-1o5uh4y.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=15&auto=format&w=754&h=1131&fit=crop&dpr=3 2262w" width="133" />
<figcaption>
<span class="caption" style="font-size: x-small;">Professor Jenny Hocking.</span><span style="font-size: x-small;">
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">AAP/James Ross</span></span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<br />
In the case brought by academic Jenny Hocking against the National Archives, <a href="http://eresources.hcourt.gov.au/showCase/2020/HCA/19">the High Court held</a> by a majority of six to one that the letters between Sir John Kerr and the queen were created, received and held as institutional documents by the “official establishment of the Governor-General” before being transferred to the National Archives by the official secretary to the governor-general in his official capacity. This level of official control over them was enough to make them “Commonwealth records”, even if the governor-general still held ownership rights over them (which the majority said it did not need to decide).<br />
<br />
In their joint judgment, Chief Justice Kiefel and Justices Bell, Gageler and Keane said they could not see how the correspondence could be described, however “loosely”, as “private or personal records of the Governor-General”.<br />
<br />
They said it could not be supposed that Kerr could have taken the correspondence from the governor-general’s official establishment and destroyed or sold it.<br />
<br />
Justice Gordon thought even if Kerr did have property rights in the original documents, he gave up any claim to them when they were deposited with the National Archives. Justice Edelman agreed the correspondence between the governor-general and the queen was “created or received officially and kept institutionally”.<br />
<br />
Only Justice Nettle concluded these letters were personal communications between Kerr and the Queen, and were not Commonwealth records. <br />
<h2>
Does this mean we get to see the letters now?</h2>
The court did not order that the letters be publicly released. Instead, it ordered the director-general of the National Archives reconsider Jenny Hocking’s request for access to the correspondence held by the archives, treating them as Commonwealth records.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aa198398/s31.html">Section 31</a> of the Archives Act 1983 requires the National Archives to give public access to any Commonwealth record that it holds that is within the open access period and is not an “exempt record”.<br />
<br />
The correspondence between Kerr and the queen has been in the “open access period” since 2006/2007. The only question that remains is whether the director-general will now claim that the correspondence is comprised of “exempt records”.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aa198398/s33.html">Section 33</a> of the Act lists a number of exemptions. These include documents that could reasonably be expected to cause damage to international relations, or where disclosure of matters in the record would constitute a breach of confidence.<br />
<br />
The damage that might be caused by the release of documents necessarily diminishes over time. So even if these exemptions are claimed, consideration would have to be given to whether they remain applicable, given the age of the documents.<br />
<br />
The director-general of the National Archives <a href="https://www.naa.gov.au/about-us/media-and-publications/media-releases/hocking-v-dg-national-archives-australia">responded</a> to the High Court’s decision by stating the
“National Archives is a pro-disclosure organisation” that operates on the basis of making records publicly available “unless there is a specific and compelling need to withhold it”.<br />
It will be interesting to see what “compelling” needs it might identify.<br />
<h2>
Are there any wider implications of the decision?</h2>
The High Court’s decision will also affect the release of correspondence by other governors-general. The release of <a href="http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/casey-richard-gavin-gardiner-9706">Lord Casey’s</a> correspondence with the Queen was <a href="https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/palace-backtracks-on-governorsgeneral-richard-caseys-letters/news-story/205a61416c6ff49d0c74792124bd1d74">recently blocked</a> by Buckingham Palace, which stated it would refuse access to any correspondence with the queen until at least five years after her death, and then only if the private secretary to the new monarch agrees. That veto has now been destroyed by the High Court.<br />
<br />
So not only is Kerr’s correspondence with the queen liable to be opened, but also the correspondence by all other governors-general with the queen, when it is in the “open access period” and subject to any exemption.<br />
<br />
That may mean we get a better idea of how the roles of the governor-general and the queen operate under our Constitution, which would be a good thing.<!-- Below is The Conversation's page counter tag. Please DO NOT REMOVE. --><img alt="The Conversation" height="1" src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/139391/count.gif?distributor=republish-lightbox-basic" style="border: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; margin: 0 !important; max-height: 1px !important; max-width: 1px !important; min-height: 1px !important; min-width: 1px !important; opacity: 0 !important; outline: none !important; padding: 0 !important; text-shadow: none !important;" width="1" /><br />
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<br />
<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/anne-twomey-6072">Anne Twomey</a>, Professor of Constitutional Law, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/university-of-sydney-841">University of Sydney</a></i><br />
This article is republished from <a href="https://theconversation.com/">The Conversation</a> under a Creative Commons license. Read the <a href="https://theconversation.com/high-court-ruling-on-palace-letters-case-paves-way-to-learn-more-about-the-dismissal-and-our-constitution-139391">original article</a>.</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-4078595870095550972020-05-30T14:10:00.001+10:002020-05-30T14:10:15.060+10:00 New look federalism: National Federation Reform Council, National Cabinet.<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<h2>
<span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">From the Prime Minister's <a href="https://www.pm.gov.au/media/update-following-national-cabinet-meeting">Statement </a>yesterday</span></span></span></h2>
<h2>
National Cabinet</h2>
National Cabinet has agreed to the formation of the National Federation Reform Council and the cessation of the COAG model.<br />
<br />
National Cabinet has worked effectively to respond to COVID-19. The
new National Federation Reform Council agreed to by Premiers, Chief
Ministers and the Prime Minister, will change the way the Commonwealth
and states and territories effectively and productively work together to
address new areas of reform.<br />
<br />
The National Cabinet will be driven by an initial single agenda - to create jobs. A job making agenda.<br />
By any measure, National Cabinet has proven to be a much more
effective body for taking decisions in the national interest than the
COAG structure.<br />
<br />
At the centre of the National Federation Reform Council will be National Cabinet.<br />
National Cabinet will continue to meet regularly and will be briefed
directly by experts such as the Australian Health Protection Principal
Committee.<br />
<br />
Initial reform areas will be agreed by National Cabinet.<br />
<br />
During the COVID-19 period, National Cabinet will continue to meet
every two weeks. In the future, these meetings will take place once a
month.<br />
<br />
The Council on Federal Financial Relations (CFFR), which is
essentially a meeting of all Treasurers, will report to National
Cabinet. CFFR will take responsibility for all funding agreements
including National Partnership Agreements.<br />
<br />
Important taskforces will continue in areas that are critical to our
National Agenda. The taskforce on women’s safety and domestic violence
will continue their critical work, as will the Indigenous affairs
taskforce with a particular focus on Closing the Gap.<br />
<br />
Once a year, National Cabinet, CFFR and the Australian Local
Government Association will meet in person as the National Federation
Reform Council with a focus on priority national federation issues such
as Closing the Gap and Women’s Safety.<br />
<br />
This new model will streamline processes and avoid endless meetings
that do not result in action. This is a congestion busting process that
will get things done with a single focus on creating jobs.<br />
This is an exciting new agenda for our federation and is about rebuilding confidence to get Australians back into work.<br />
<br />
Further details of the National Federation Reform Council and
consolidation and reset of the Ministerial Forums and Ministerial
Regulatory Councils will be reviewed by National Cabinet.</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-13113645001296140222020-05-28T16:14:00.004+10:002020-05-28T16:14:52.864+10:00Transparency during the crisis, business as usual?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The full extent of how the COVID 19 crisis is impacting on transparency and accountability at the federal or state level is unknowable to us outsiders-maybe information commissioners could have a look and tell us, warts and all ? But what you can glean from the public record suggests the longstanding attachment, in Canberra certainly, to secrecy, confidentiality and guarding the barricades against the inquisitive and interested is hard to shake.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Particularly when you try to get close to the cabinet door.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>The Senate- No date-Executive Privilege? </b></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The ongoing hearings of the </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">COVID 19 <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/COVID-19/COVID19">Senate select committee</a> has seen parliamentarians dig deep with some warranted success given Parliament's role and responsibility to oversight executive government, and the response to the pandemic. </span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">However those appearing before or providing information to the committee are sticking to the usual ground rule that if information asked for or sought gives rise to something close to a plausible reason to keep the shades drawn, go for it. </span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span>
<br />
<div style="font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">When Senator Katy Gallagher<b> </b>Chair of the committee<b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space">on 13 May</span><b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space">asked officers from the Department of Prime Minister</span>
"the date on which Professor Murphy (Chief Medical Officer) first
briefed the Cabinet about COVID-19?" the question was taken on notice.On the same day PMC came back with the<a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/COVID-19/COVID19/Additional_Documents?docType=Answer%20to%20Question%20on%20Notice"> Answer</a> (No 30)</span></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div style="font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"Revealing
information about when the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Brendan
Murphy, first briefed the Cabinet on the coronavirus pandemic would or
could reasonably be expected to disclose the deliberations of the
Cabinet. </span></span></div>
<div style="font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It
is a longstanding practice not to disclose information about the
operation and business of the Cabinet and its committees, including when
a matter went to the Cabinet, who attended, and what form of submission
was provided, as to do so could potentially reveal the deliberations of
the Cabinet, which are confidential. </span></span></div>
<div style="font-stretch: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The
deliberations of the Cabinet and its committees should be conducted in
confidence so that the freedom of those deliberations can be preserved.
It is not in the public interest to disclose information about the
Cabinet’s deliberations as it may impact on the Government’s ability to
receive confidential information and make appropriate decisions
impacting on the Australian community. </span></span></div>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">This approach has been used consistently for several years and is consistent with the approach taken by previous Secretaries." </span></span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">(All the date would reveal was that the cabinet met that day and heard words from Professor Murphy's lips. It wouldn't reveal what he said, what discussion if any ensued and who said what, what if any decisions were taken, but that a deliberation had taken place.</span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Head things off at the pass</span></span></span></span></b><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span></span>
<br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Something similar occurred at a <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Fcommsen%2F075080e7-f52b-4050-bf13-0211794d6768%2F0001;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Fcommsen%2F075080e7-f52b-4050-bf13-0211794d6768%2F0000%22">hearing</a> on 26 May when Senator Gallagher asked </span></span></span></span><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Professor Murphy</span></span><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">:</span></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">"I presume you've been briefing the National Security Committee
of cabinet on those improvements in the modelling of the health data
over the last eight weeks.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Prof. Murphy</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> The national cabinet
has been briefed on those and the National Security Committee less so.
At the national cabinet, the premiers and the Prime Minister generally
get an update on the modelling at every meeting.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> What about the federal cabinet?</span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">A simple Yes, maybe even a No might have done it but Acting Secretary of the Department of Health (seconded from her job as Deputy Secretary of Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet was up to the mark:</span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"> </span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Edwards</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Of course, Professor Murphy is not really at liberty to discuss what advice he's given to cabinet.</span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<br /></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Leading to:</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> I'm talking
about the modelling and whether or not that's been provided. I'm not
asking what the modelling is and what it's saying and what might not
have been released. I am asking whether the Chief Medical Officer has
provided modelling to the NSC.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span>.....<br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Edwards</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Very comprehensive
advice is provided to government at all stages through the ordinary
processes, including the confidential cabinet processes.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> But you won't confirm whether the modelling has been provided to the cabinet?</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Edwards</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> In accordance with the standard practice, we don't provide detail of what advice has been provided to cabinet in confidence.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> No, the
committee hasn't accepted that, and we have repeatedly made it known to
witnesses that if you are going to deny an answer to questions then you
must indicate whether you are going to seek public interest immunity.
You need to explain the public harm that comes from letting us know
whether the cabinet has received modelling information as the health
curve has been flattened. That is the question. If you think that's a
harm to public interest then refer it to your minister and go through
that process, Ms Edwards. I would think it's a fairly straightforward
question for this committee to ask.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Edwards</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We'll refer to the minister whether he wants to claim public interest immunity in relation to what's been provided to cabinet.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> About whether they're doing their job properly.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span>....<br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> My question
is whether the NSC of the federal cabinet have been briefed on the
modelling as the curve has flattened. That is my question. If you're
unable to answer that simple question today and it needs to be referred
to your minister, please indicate if that's the case.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Edwards</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That's what we'll have to do.</span></span>
</div>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">
</span><br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Right. It
really makes the scrutiny role of this committee an absolute joke. ....</span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<br /></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<b><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Give a little-pass the parcel </span></span></span></span></span></span></b><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Questions about briefs and modeling were also asked of
Treasury Secretary Dr Steven Kennedy. As the Sydney Morning Herald <a href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-07/how-treasury-underestimated-coronavirus-like-the-rest-of-us/12126302">reported</a> in April Treasury released parts of this <a href="https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-04/foi_2663_document_for_release_redacted.pdf">ministerial brief</a>
dated 30 January on economic impacts-before the full scale of the
damage to the economy was realised. </span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">It has published and updates the
Government <a href="https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-03/Overview-Economic_Response_to_the_Coronavirus_2.pdf">Economic Response</a>. </span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">The Senate committee asked for more. Dr Kennedy in a letter of 19 May provided a
copy of another J<a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/COVID-19/COVID19/Additional_Documents?docType=Correspondence">anuary ministerial brief </a>providing background on the
SARS epidemic of 2003 and commentary about its current relevance, and
referred to some publicly available documents, but said other
documents requested were prepared for cabinet deliberations and were a matter for
Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet. </span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><b>The National Cabinet </b></span></span></span></span></span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Brewing away in the background here is the significance in terms of transparency of the claim put out there most notably by PMC Secretary Phillip Gaetjens at that hearing on <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Fcommsen%2F608011bb-99d9-4b10-9fa8-521eaa899fa5%2F0000%22">13 May</a> that the National Cabinet is part of the Federal government governance structure, indeed part of the federal cabinet. Suffice here to say</span></span><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"> Mr Gaetjens was clear and definite in his evidenc</span>e: </span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; direction: ltr; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; unicode-bidi: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATRICK:</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>In
relation to the national cabinet, I heard you saying at the start—and I
apologise; I came in late—that, in effect, it is part of the federal
cabinet?</span></span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; direction: ltr; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; unicode-bidi: normal; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Gaetjens</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Yes.</span></span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It's very doubtful in my opinion.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">More on that in the next post.</span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>FOI- we're hard pushed </b></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">On the Freedom of Information front, delays and requests for extra time are the order of the day and many/most are understandable. However from what's visible through FOI applications using the <a href="https://www.righttoknow.org.au/">Right to Know</a> platform </span><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"complex or voluminous" is getting quite a workover.</span><br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span>
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><b>Just hard</b></span><br />
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">On access to documents not a lot in the public domain at present.</span></span></span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">PMC dealt with </span></span>a <a href="https://rex.centrealliance.org.au/media/releases/pms-covid-19-inquiry-hypocrisy/">Freedom of Information request</a> from Senator Rex Patrick for the early
briefings provided to Prime Minister Morrison on the beginning of the
coronavirus outbreak by giving nothing away.</span></span></div>
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">As Senator Patrick recounts:</span></span><br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"I was hopeful that the Department would
release some useful information that would shed light on the
Government’s early assessments and responses in January. A high level of
transparency is essential if we are to learn all the lessons we can
from the experience of this terrible pandemic."</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">However the
Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet has refused access to all of
the requested briefings given to the Prime Minister at the beginning of
the crisis.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"The Government has piled on every exemption category
it can think of – international relations, national security, internal
government deliberations and Cabinet business – to withhold every word
of five briefings provided to the Prime Minister between the first and
thirty first of January. This was the critical time in which the
Government first received reports of the coronavirus outbreak, and first
learned of human-to human transmission, but decided to only screen
flights from Wuhan and hand leaflets to passengers arriving from China."</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"The
Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet’s blanket refusal to
release early briefings to the Prime Minister at the beginning of the
COVID-19 crisis is deeply disappointing and quite at odds with the
Government’s claimed commitment to transparency," said Senator Patrick.</span></span></blockquote>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Ariel Bogle </span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="st">online technology reporter at the ABC also struck out, giving this cryptic account on <a href="https://twitter.com/arielbogle?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor">Twitter </a></span></span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="st"><br /></span></span></span>
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="css-901oao css-16my406 r-1qd0xha r-ad9z0x r-bcqeeo r-qvutc0">"I've been refused FOI access to the government's privacy impact assessments for the coronavirus WhatsApp channel & info app. Seems odd given the one for COVIDSafe was released for public confidence. (They say it would inhibit frank advice from legal advisers, among other things)"</span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Senator Patrick is out there <a href="https://rex.centrealliance.org.au/media/releases/60-billion-reasons-to-release-treasury-modelling/">again</a> at the moment this time flagging 'cabinet in confidence' may stand between the public right to know and Treasury modeling that led to the $60 billion Job Keeper bungle, calling </span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">" ..on Treasurer Josh
Frydenberg to immediately release Treasury JobKeeper modelling after the
Government committed the biggest accounting error in Australia’s public
administration history."Treasury modelling may well have caused Government to suffer from a bad case of confirmation bias," said Senator Patrick.Senator Patrick pressed Treasury Secretary Dr Kennedy last Thursday for
the modelling to be released to the Senate’s COVID-19 oversight
committee. <i>"I put to you that all the modelling your department does
is done on the public coin and for public purpose, and the public has a
right to see what it is that your department has done. I think it is
disrespectful for the Treasury to withhold that information from the
public."</i>"If there wasn’t enough reason last Thursday, there’s 60 billion more reasons now."Dr Kennedy hinted a cabinet-in-confidence claim would be used. "I think
most Australians are getting sick and tired of the Government
sprinkling ‘Cabinet fairy dust’ on just about anything that might prove
embarrassing to Government," said Senator Patrick.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;">Sure to be plenty more of this in the pipeline. </span></span></div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-37856781647248303612020-05-14T16:15:00.000+10:002020-05-15T14:09:42.412+10:00 Privacy Commissioner and OAIC expected to do more on the smell of the same oily rag?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="MsoListParagraph" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt 3.4pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0cm; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"></span></span> <span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Office of Australian Information Commissioner was asked again to do more with no additional resources, something it should be used to by now after six years of practice. That's since since the Abbott government had an unsuccessful crack at abolishing the Commission and successive governments in the years since kept the lid closed or just slightly ajar (with some additional privacy resources in last year's budget to go with earlier expansions of its role) on the moneybox. </span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraph" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt 3.4pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0cm; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">But wait-despite no one on the government side deviating from the script during debate the Attorney General told Shadow Attorney General Dreyfus separately his department is checking with the OAIC to ensure they have adequate resources.</span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraph" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt 3.4pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0cm; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">(Perhaps too much to hope that the check might also dig into the issue of stretched OAIC Freedom of Information resources that include one commissioner instead of three as legislated, and to deal with something like a 90% increase in FOI review applications over the last four years that now form a long,long queue</span><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">, and non existent resources for Information Policy functions.)</span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraph" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt 3.4pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0cm; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The OAIC issue arose as the <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r6556">Privacy Amendment (Public Health Contact Information) Bill 2020</a> sailed through both houses when Parliament sat this week</span>. </div>
<div class="MsoListParagraph" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt 3.4pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0cm; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The bill, as passed by the House of Representatives on Wednesday, passed the Senate this morning without amendment. </span></span></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraph" style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 12pt 0cm 0.0001pt 3.4pt; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0cm; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Labor in the Senate did not support amendments put by the Greens and Centre Alliance citing the urgency of getting the legislation in place as quickly as possible.</span></span></div>
<div style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<br /></div>
<div style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Speakers in both houses drew attention to the extra responsibilities the bill places on the Privacy Commissioner and her office the OAIC, particularly this exchange in a committee hearing last week </span></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Keneally: </span>in light of the new and important oversight responsibilities that the draft bill would confer on the Privacy Commissioner, will the government be providing the Privacy Commissioner with any additional resources?</span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<blockquote>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey (Attorney General’s Department)</span>:<span class="HPS-GeneralBold"></span> There's no intention to provide additional resources. The Privacy Commissioner is able to undertake this work within their existing resources.</span></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Shadow Attorney General Mark Dreyfus unsuccessfully moved a motion in the House that included a call <strike>call </strike>on the government to "provide additional funding to the (OAIC) and appoint a standalone privacy commissioner “to ensure that the commissioner is able to properly perform the important oversight functions provided for in this bill.” </span></span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<br /></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">He spoke to this part of the motion thus:</span></span></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">"Another issue that I raised with the Attorney-General during discussion about this bill relates to the funding of the Office of the Australian <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Commissioner" rel="nofollow">Information Commissioner</a>. In short, I do not think that the evidence of the Attorney-General's Department at last Wednesday's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COV" rel="nofollow">COV</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID" rel="nofollow">ID</a>-19 Senate select committee hearing that the commissioner requires no additional resources to fulfil her new oversight responsibilities is credible.In fact, it is incredible. You do not have to take my word for it. Just last October, the Information Commissioner told Senate estimates that her office is already underresourced.The Attorney-General has advised me that his department is engaging with the commissioner to ensure that she has the necessary resources to perform the important oversight functions provided for in this bill, the Privacy Amendment (Public Health Contact Information) Bill 2020. While I welcome that engagement and look forward to receiving an update over coming days or weeks, there is no question in my mind that additional funding is urgently required. The only question is how much.</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">It is also important to remember that for years the government has refused to appoint a standalone information commissioner, a standalone <span class="hi">freedom of information</span> commissioner or a standalone privacy commissioner. Instead, one person currently occupies all three of these important and demanding roles. As I've said repeatedly, this is unacceptable. In light of the new responsibilities that this bill would confer on the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner, now more than ever the government needs to appoint a standalone, dedicated privacy commissioner. The appointment of a full-time and properly resourced privacy commissioner rather than a commissioner forced to split her time between three different and demanding roles would make a further valuable contribution to building public confidence in the COVIDSafe app. It should not take a public health crisis for the government to show that it takes seriously the privacy of Australians.</span></span></blockquote>
</div>
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<blockquote>
</blockquote>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Additional responsibilities for the Privacy Commissioner arise<span class="HPS-Normal"> because as explained in the second reading speech: </span></span></span></div>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">The bill ensures COVIDSafe app data must be treated as 'personal information' under the Privacy Act, by virtue of section 94Q. This automatically applies a range of existing Privacy Act protections to COVIDSafe app data, including privacy policy, notification, and security obligations. </span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">The commissioner will be able to undertake a formal assessment of whether an entity subject to the Privacy Act, or a state or territory health authority handling COVIDSafe app data, is complying with the requirements in this bill. And to deal with complaints.</span></span></span></li>
</ul>
</div>
<div style="-moz-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: black; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">The commissioner will also have discretion to refer matters that may constitute a breach of a state or territory privacy law to the responsible state or territory privacy regulator.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"> The commissioner will provide regular public reports on the performance and exercise of her new powers and functions under part VIIIA.</span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<ul style="text-align: left;">
<li><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal"><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span><span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>The bill applies the existing Notifiable Data Breaches Scheme for which the commissioner is responsible to COVIDSafe app data under section 94S. The bill requires the administrator of the National COVIDSafe Data Store, or a state or territory health authority handling COVIDSafe app data, to notify the commissioner of any data breach involving COVIDSafe app data. The commissioner will then have the power to require the breach to be notified to affected individuals.</span></span></span><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span class="HPS-Normal">The notification requirement would be automatic in the event of a data breach, which is much stronger than the protection in the Privacy Act's existing data breach notification requirements. </span></span></span></li>
</ul>
<div>
<div style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<div>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Somewhere in there <strike>in there</strike> is also a COVIDSafe Privacy Advisory Committee, including the various Privacy Commissioners, to provide collective advice to the National Cabinet and the public regarding the operation of COVIDSafe.</span></span></div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">The Commissioner <a href="https://www.oaic.gov.au/updates/news-and-media/oaic-expands-oversight-role-as-privacy-safeguards-for-covidsafe-app-made-law/">welcomed</a> changes to the act-no mention of the resources issue </span></span></div>
<div>
</div>
<div>
<span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;">Should be a snack really. </span></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-37973726436716125392020-04-21T12:34:00.002+10:002020-04-21T12:34:56.692+10:00"National Cabinet" not Cabinet as we have known it<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<br /></div>
<h1 class="legacy">
Explainer: what is the national cabinet and is it democratic?</h1>
<br />
<figure>
<img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/324165/original/file-20200331-65537-6o3gan.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" />
<figcaption>
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">AAP/Mike Bowers</span></span>
</figcaption>
</figure>
<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/jennifer-menzies-8509">Jennifer Menzies</a>, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/griffith-university-828">Griffith University</a></i>
<br />
Crises pose particular challenges for democratic leaders. They are expected to make critical decisions in times of uncertainty and rapidly develop effective plans to lead us out of the crisis. Normally, we are more interested in constraining our leaders through the checks and balances of accountability. But in times of crisis, we look to our leaders to lead. Finding the right balance between accountability and rapid decision-making remains a challenge during an era of <a href="https://theconversation.com/trust-in-politicians-and-government-is-at-an-all-time-low-the-next-government-must-work-to-fix-that-110886">reduced trust in political leaders</a>.<br />
In Australia, the establishment of the national cabinet has undertaken this crisis leadership role.<br />
The national cabinet comprises the prime minister and all state and territory premiers and chief ministers. Basically, it is COAG by another name.<br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/where-no-counsel-is-the-people-fall-why-parliaments-should-keep-functioning-during-the-coronavirus-crisis-134772">'Where no counsel is, the people fall': why parliaments should keep functioning during the coronavirus crisis</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
Though called a cabinet, the national cabinet is technically an intergovernmental forum. The <a href="https://www.pmc.gov.au/resource-centre/government/cabinet-handbook">conventions and rules of cabinet</a>, such as cabinet solidarity and the secrecy provisions, do not apply to the national cabinet.<br />
Its power is that which the leaders of all Australian jurisdictions bring to negotiate on behalf of their people, and to implement the decisions reached. This model is called executive federalism.<br />
<h2>
Advantages of executive federalism in a time of crisis</h2>
In a crisis, decision-making automatically shifts upwards with the expectation that leaders will work together to find a way through the crisis. The National Cabinet meets these expectations in several ways.<br />
<br />
<i>Timeliness and risk</i><br />
Response time is critical, and with the national cabinet meeting multiple times a week, issues can be addressed as they emerge. Risk is reduced by bringing together technical and political experts. <br />
The national cabinet is supported by the chief medical officers, who meet as the <a href="https://www.health.gov.au/committees-and-groups/australian-health-protection-principal-committee-ahppc">Australian Health Protection and Principles Committee</a> (AHPPC). They pull together the modelling, research and data that form the basis of decisions made by the national cabinet.<br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/view-from-the-hill-a-contest-of-credible-views-should-be-seen-as-useful-in-a-national-crisis-134419">View from The Hill: A contest of credible views should be seen as useful in a national crisis</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
The national cabinet is the mechanism to bring together information and intelligence sharing, and the capacity to pool and test ideas before locking in coordination and jurisdictional capacity. <br />
Because of the frequency of meetings, decisions are expected and made. The consideration of different jurisdictional viewpoints and expertise puts rigour and contestability into the decision-making and strengthens the outcome.<br />
<br />
<i>Clarity and coherence</i><br />
In a time of national crisis, agreement on a plan of action and then rapid and effective implementation is crucial. The national cabinet brings that focus. By putting aside their “politics as usual” squabbles the leaders demonstrate their desire for agreement and unity and communicate that firmness of purpose to the community at large.<br />
<br />
Though the search for unity can be overborne by local circumstances. Some states <a href="https://theconversation.com/nsw-and-victoria-announce-shutdowns-as-federal-government-widens-and-ramps-up-income-support-134355">moved earlier</a> to introduce restrictions and shutdowns outside of the national cabinet. Though criticised for breaking ranks, the premiers were reacting to the different circumstances and anxiety within their jurisdiction. They decided to trade off the perception of a loss of unity against the need to create local responses for local circumstances.<br />
<br />
<i>Dual democracy</i><br />
The national cabinet helps reconcile the dual allegiances citizens have to the national government and their state or territory government. People are looking for a coherent national approach through the crisis, but they do not want to see their individual jurisdiction to be disadvantaged compared to the rest of the country. At the national cabinet, the smaller states have equal representation, whereas in parliament their representation is proportionate to their population size.<br />
<br />
<i>Is it anti-democratic?</i><br />
Executive federalism forums such as the national cabinet <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/%7E/%7E/link.aspx?_id=C8C131542382464EB28135A33F9EA201&_z=z">can be criticised</a> for being undemocratic and unaccountable, with the role of the parliament marginalised. However, these forums are undertaking different roles. The national cabinet deals with negotiation and compromise between states, which recognise difference and diversity. The parliament is about majority will. <br />
The connection has not been lost with parliament, which is <a href="https://theconversation.com/a-virtual-australian-parliament-is-possible-and-may-be-needed-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic-134540">suspended not pro-rogued</a>, and will be brought back to pass legislation from decisions made by the national cabinet.<br />
<br />
Once the COVID-19 crisis has passed, the full democratic accountability processes can scrutinise the decisions taken. This includes parliamentary committee investigations and royal commissions. The checks and balances of the democratic constraints on our leaders will reassert themselves.<!-- Below is The Conversation's page counter tag. Please DO NOT REMOVE. --><img alt="The Conversation" height="1" src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/135036/count.gif?distributor=republish-lightbox-basic" style="border: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; margin: 0 !important; max-height: 1px !important; max-width: 1px !important; min-height: 1px !important; min-width: 1px !important; opacity: 0 !important; outline: none !important; padding: 0 !important; text-shadow: none !important;" width="1" /><br />
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<br />
<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/jennifer-menzies-8509">Jennifer Menzies</a>, Principal Research Fellow, Policy Innovation Hub, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/griffith-university-828">Griffith University</a></i><br />
This article is republished from <a href="https://theconversation.com/">The Conversation</a> under a Creative Commons license. Read the <a href="https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-the-national-cabinet-and-is-it-democratic-135036">original article</a>.</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-78715596373468965422020-04-09T13:46:00.001+10:002020-04-09T13:46:22.067+10:00Parliament out till August, scrutiny of response to pandemic in the hands of senate committee<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
<div class="italic">
At the truncated sitting of the Senate yesterday, the Senate:<br />
<a href="https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?id=2020-04-08.10.2">debated </a>in the course of a ministerial statement about the Coronavirus pandemic, whether Parliament would adjourn normal sittings until August, subject to recall by the presiding officers in the event of urgent necessity. And adjourned on that basis; <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.openaustralia.org.au/senate/?gid=2020-04-08.94.3">approved</a> a motion moved by ALP Senator Katy Gallagher to establish a Senate committee to oversight the Government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic and any related matters, and to report on or before 30 June 2022. The full text is below. An amendment moved by The Greens to establish joint (ie members from both houses) committees to oversight the Pandemic Health Response and the Pandemic Economic Response was opposed by government and ALP senators and failed to pass.<br />
<br />
Senator Cormann in his ministerial statement said<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"Parliament not sitting for a period does not mean the government is
not under scrutiny from the parliament... We will also be supporting the establishment of a
dedicated select committee to be chaired by the shadow finance minister,
Senator Gallagher, which will be examining and scrutinising the
government's response to COVID-19. In fact, our government very much
welcomes the establishment of this Senate select committee, which will
have as its job to scrutinise and question all of the initiatives and
measures taken by our government in responding to the coronavirus
crisis.<br />
<br />
That committee will be supported from the coalition side by
Senator James Paterson, a very experienced committee chair across the
broader Prime Minister and Cabinet and Finance portfolios, who will be
our nominee for Deputy Chair, and Senator Perin Davey, who will bring an
important regional perspective to the work of that committee. All
interested senators will be able to participate in that long-term
inquiry as they see fit.<br />
<br />
It also, of course, remains possible for
senators to ask ministers questions on notice, and I know a number of
colleagues in this chamber take furious advantage of that opportunity.
Furthermore, the parliament may well sit again between now and August,
if and as required. The motion the Senate agreed to unanimously when we
last met allowed for the President to determine the day and time of the
next meeting of the Senate at the request of or with the agreement of
the Leader of the Government in the Senate and the Leader of the
Opposition in the Senate. That is, in fact, precisely how today's
sitting of the Senate came about, and I will be moving a motion to the
same effect before the Senate adjourns today. To put it simply: the
Senate can sit and will sit to ensure measures are implemented that
protect Australians and support the economy, jobs and Australians in
need of support, in response to the increasing threat of the COVID-19
coronavirus. But, during this period, we will only sit if that is
necessary for us to act consistently, as much as we can, with the public
health advice directed by medical experts to all Australians."</blockquote>
<br />
Thanks <a href="https://www.openaustralia.org.au/">Open Australia</a> for the links.<br />
<a name='more'></a> <br /></div>
<div class="italic">
<b>Motion approved by the Senate </b></div>
<div class="italic">
<br /></div>
<div class="italic">
(1) That a select committee, to be known as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_Committee" rel="nofollow">Select Committee</a> on COVID-19, be established to inquire into and report on:</div>
<div class="italic">
a) the Australian Government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic; and</div>
<div class="italic">
b) any related matters.</div>
<div class="italic">
(2) That the committee present its final report on or before 30 June 2022.</div>
<div class="italic">
(3) That the committee consist of 7 senators, as follows:</div>
<div class="italic">
a) 3 nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate;</div>
<div class="italic">
b) 2 nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate;</div>
<div class="italic">
c) 1 nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens; and</div>
<div class="italic">
d) Senator Jacqui Lambie</div>
<div class="italic">
(4) That:</div>
<div class="italic">
a)
participating members may be appointed to the committee on the
nomination of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, the Leader of
the Opposition in the Senate or any minority party or independent
senator; and</div>
<div class="italic">
b) participating members may
participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee,
and have all the rights of members of the committee, but may not vote on
any questions before the committee.</div>
<div class="italic">
c) a
participating member shall be taken to be a member of a committee for
the purpose of forming a quorum of the committee if a majority of
members of the committee is not present.</div>
<div class="italic">
(5) That
the committee may proceed to the dispatch of business notwithstanding
that not all members have been duly nominated and appointed and
notwithstanding any vacancy.</div>
<div class="italic">
(6) That the
committee elect as chair one of the members nominated by the Leader of
the Opposition in the Senate and as deputy chair the member nominated by
the Leader of the Government in the Senate.</div>
<div class="italic">
(7)
That the deputy chair shall act as chair when the chair is absent from a
meeting of the committee or the position of chair is temporarily
vacant.</div>
<div class="italic">
(8) That, in the event of an equality of voting, the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, have a casting vote.</div>
<div class="italic">
(9)
That the committee have power to appoint subcommittees consisting of 3
or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the
matters which the committee is empowered to consider.</div>
<div class="italic">
(10)
That the committee and any subcommittee have power to send for and
examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in
public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament
or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report
from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such
interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</div>
<div class="italic">
(11)
That the committee be provided with all necessary staff, facilities and
resources and be empowered to appoint persons with specialist knowledge
for the purposes of the committee with the approval of the President.</div>
<div class="italic">
(12)
That the committee be empowered to print from day to day such papers
and evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published
of such proceedings as take place in public.</div>
In the interests of
time, I won't read through all the aspects of the motion. It's been
circulated to senators for their consideration. However, I would like to
just say a few things. Senators, the establishment of this committee is
very important and it will have an important role going forward, as
Australia deals with the immediate challenges presented by the COVID-19
outbreak, and, indeed, for what happens after. I would like to thank the
government, particularly the Leader of the Government in the Senate,
Senator Cormann, Minister Cormann, for working with us to put these
arrangements in place.<br />
<br />
Senator Gallagher said<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
This committee, in its early stages
particularly, will provide the country with the scrutiny that's needed
on the government's response, in the absence of the parliament not
sitting. Of course, it remains Labor's view that the parliament should
be able to sit, but, with the government not willing to agree to that,
this select committee will be an important vehicle for examining the
government's response and providing the transparency, accountability and
scrutiny that the people of Australia deserve. Indeed, this is the role
that this Senate importantly plays across the political system.<br />
<br />
We
have tried to represent a broad make-up of the Senate in the select
committee of seven senators, so that the crossbench, the Greens
political party, the opposition and the government are represented. It
does have a long reporting date, and the terms of reference are very
broad, to allow us to inquire into any aspect related to the COVID-19
pandemic and the government's response to it. Of course, that covers
areas we know already but also, importantly, it gives us scope through
this committee to examine and inquire into areas that may not be known
to us at this point in time. As we know, we are learning things all the
time about this pandemic and how governments are responding to it.<br />
<br />
I
hope I get the support of the Senate for this motion. I thank the
government for working with us. In terms of the approach that Labor
senators will bring, you'll see the same approach that you have been
seeing in terms of our dealing with the legislation that's come to this
place; it will be cooperative, working in the national interest. That is
our first point. But if there are gaps, if there are problems, we will
be raising those and pursuing them vigorously. I urge the Senate to
support this motion, as it's the only option and it's the only vehicle
that we will be able to put in place to provide the appropriate scrutiny
that's needed not just over the next few months but, indeed, over the
next 18 months or so.</blockquote>
</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-77798655481834256792020-03-09T15:36:00.002+11:002020-03-09T15:38:28.205+11:00Pass the hot parcel when questions are raised about 40 years of records in the bin<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
The testimony in a senate committee hearing on the Sports Rorts affair that retiring Secretary of the Department of Health Glenys Beauchamp had <a href="https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6653904/notebooks-covering-public-service-career-destroyed-sparking-records-debate/">destroyed </a>all of the notes and notebooks from her public service career at the end of January led to further inquiry in Senate estimates last week. The hot potato of course was the notes if any that had been kept then destroyed about meetings concerning the tortuous decision making on community sports grants. <br />
<br />
Senate Estimates on this bore passing resemblance to pass the parcel but there was no prize for anyone when the music stopped-for the moment at least.<br />
<br />
<b>In short:</b><br />
<br />
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Festimate%2F5f83c1eb-df99-4979-8bf7-ddc1cc2ecafb%2F0012;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Festimate%2F5f83c1eb-df99-4979-8bf7-ddc1cc2ecafb%2F0000%22">Australian Public Service Commissioner </a>Peter Woolcott said he hadn't carried out an investigation into the matter as requested by Senator Gallagher because he didn't have authority and the Attorney General's Department not the Commission was the agency responsible for the Archives Act. Senator Gallagher noted the <a href="https://www.apsc.gov.au/1-what-record">APSC website</a> had a lot of information about record keeping. Woolcott said this was all to do with the broader issue of integrity and the APS Code of Conduct but "I have no room to investigate Ms Beauchamp at this point." <br />
<br />
The <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Festimate%2F865cc79d-d712-43c1-a219-13bad74c5930%2F0002;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Festimate%2F865cc79d-d712-43c1-a219-13bad74c5930%2F0000%22">Attorney General's Department</a> couldn't say one way or the other whether destruction of the notes and notebooks could give rise to <a href="http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aa198398/s24.html">an offence</a> under the Archives Act, noting that destruction of records in accordance with "a normal administrative practice" was exempt from the offence provision, and flagged that the Archives office was to be heard later in the day.<br />
<br />
When the <a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;db=COMMITTEES;id=committees%2Festimate%2F865cc79d-d712-43c1-a219-13bad74c5930%2F0012;query=Id%3A%22committees%2Festimate%2F865cc79d-d712-43c1-a219-13bad74c5930%2F0000%22">Archives office</a>, no doubt the best placed to throw light on it all, finally got the call at 10.45 pm, none of the senators who pursued the issue earlier in the day asked a question about it in the 15 minutes devoted to Archives. Archives will no doubt get a chance through questions on notice to express a view in light of published <a href="https://www.naa.gov.au/information-management/disposing-information/normal-administrative-practice-nap">guidance</a> on the matter but now Ms Beauchamp has left the service and the records no longer exist it seems unlikely to go any further.<br />
<br />
What message this conveys to public servants about record keeping generally is another matter, just as Mr Woolcott prepares for a service wide training initiative on integrity. Quite a challenge but a ready made case study perhaps? <br />
<br />
Senator Gallagher the opposition shadow public service minister <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/08/sport-australia-defies-senate-on-questions-over-sports-rorts-grants?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0F1c3RyYWxpYW5Qb2xpdGljcy0yMDAzMDg%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=aupolitics_email&utm_campaign=AustralianPolitics">has written</a> to the Attorney General asking him to investigate the destroyed notes.<br />
“It seems all very convenient that no official records are available
from a key meeting of senior officials – urgently convened to discuss
the management of political interference in the allocation of sports
grants and that of the three officials present at that meeting only
former CEO of Sport Australia, Ms Palmer, can recall it,” Gallagher
said.“I have referred the matter of the destruction of records to the
attorney general following the advice of the Public Service
Commissioner. As a commonwealth public servant the making and keeping of
records is not a discretionary act.”
<br />
<br />
<b>The long version </b>of what transpired in Estimates is in these extracts from the Hansard transcripts: <br />
<br />
<a name='more'></a><br />
<b>Australian Public Service Commission </b><br />
<br />
<span class="HPS-Normal"></span>
<br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> I welcome Mr Peter Woolcott, Australian Public Service Commissioner. Mr Woolcott, do you wish to make an opening statement?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No, thank you.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> That's good given the time. </span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> I have probably half an hour's worth of questions,
but, given the time, I will put most of them on notice. Mr Woolcott,
thank you for your letter today in relation to my letter on Friday
asking you to look into the matter of the former head of Health, Ms
Beauchamp, and her evidence to the Senate Select Committee on
Administration of Sports Grants where she indicated that she had
destroyed her notebooks and notes of her time as a senior official in
the Australian Public Service. To go straight to the issue that's
concerning me, how were you able to reach the conclusion in your letter
that the matters I raised with you on Friday afternoon don't warrant any
investigation?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Obviously I have
a statutory duty to uphold the integrity of the APS, and I take these
issues very seriously, but I have no powers to investigate under the
Archives Act. That's a matter for the Attorney-General's portfolio. As I
said, the administration of the Archives Act falls under the
responsibility of the Attorney-General. So that's the first aspect.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">The second aspect—you referred to
your concern about widespread and ongoing systematic issues in the
Australian Public Service over the destruction of records. I've not seen
any evidence of that in the time I have been the APS Commissioner. As I
also mentioned in my response to your letter, Senator, I will be
working with the Attorney-General's Department as part of a broader
integrity regime ensuring the proper treatment of documents under the
Archives Act is part of that integrity training. But, on the basis of
those things I have mentioned, I saw no room to investigate Ms Beauchamp
at this point.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Did you talk to Ms Beauchamp?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I didn't talk to Ms Beauchamp. She did text me at another stage and said she was sorry if she has caused me any grief.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Did you review the <span style="font-style: italic;">Hansard</span>, the transcript of her evidence?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I did.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Did you take any advice about whether you had any ability to investigate the matter?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We did approach the AGS for advice on that.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Did they confirm that you didn't have any powers?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> It was clear that it was under the Archives Act and that it was a matter for the Attorney-General's portfolio.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> So why does the Public Service Commission provide
the guidance about what constitutes a record? It basically provides all
the information for public servants about the importance of keeping
records. It defines a record and defines different classes of records.
And I know that low-value notes are included as potentially Commonwealth
records. Informal notes and diaries can be considered as Commonwealth
records. Why do you have that role but then no other role?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We have an
overarching responsibility for integrity, and that is part of the broad
suite of materials that we maintain to ensure compliance with the APS
Values and the Code of Conduct. The APSC provides guidance material on a
range of things, which includes the proper handling of documents. But
we are not the authority and we are not the responsible agency under the
Archives Act.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Is there someone you can refer me to for this matter to be looked at? Who would be the appropriate authority?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> It would be a matter for the Attorney-General and his department.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> We've walked down that path before, I think. So
you've had legal advice that basically said you're not able to
investigate this matter?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'd need to double-check that. I might just take that on notice.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Okay, if you could.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> My clear
understanding is that we are not the authority responsible for the act,
but I will need to take that on notice to be double sure.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> So where there are other questions about documents unrelated to this issue, the Public Service Commission doesn't have a role?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That is my view, yes.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> I raised two issues with you. One was the
Beauchamp matter and the other was whether there are widespread or
ongoing issues in relation to the destruction of documents. You said in
your answer to a question I just asked that you haven't seen any
evidence of this. What's that statement based on?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That statement
is largely based on—we have an ethics hotline at the APSC, where people
ring in and ask us questions about ethical issues, and my understanding
is that it has not been raised with us.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Not through the hotline or any other way—any matters around the destruction of documents?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No. That is my understanding—certainly in the time that I've been the commissioner.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> Considering that the secretary of the Department
of Health has destroyed years of personal notebooks as we heard on
Friday, do you think it's worth the Public Service Commission
proactively having a look at the Department of Health to see whether
there is an issue there?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I read her
transcript. She indicated that she was aware and complied with
obligations under the Archives Act. The National Archives of Australia—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> She also said that she didn't take advice on it. A
straight reading of the guidance material that you distribute does
include personal and informal notes and diaries, which are, on the
surface, what Ms Beauchamp said she had destroyed.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'm not the
authority on the act, as you know. But the National Archives of
Australia does provide guidance about the compliance of archiving.
There's the AA, under which the Archives sets standards and provides
advice to each agency to apply in these circumstances. I do understand
that Health has a policy outlining where it is appropriate to destroy
records as a normal administrative practise, but, again, I'm not the
authority on this.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> We might ask Health if the secretary was able to
comply with the policy and destroy personal notes. You're referring me,
basically, to the Attorney-General. That's my only real point for
review. Is that correct?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Woolcott</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> They have the responsibility for the act.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> I do have a lot of other questions—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> I'm sure you do.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FING%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
</a> and I apologise to you and your and officials for
getting pushed this late in the program. It means we have to keep our
questions short.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> We have
had a busy day. If there are no further questions this evening for the
APSC, I thank you very much for your attendance and your evidence here
this evening. </span>
</div>
<br />
<b>Attorney General's Department</b><br />
<br />
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> First of all, I declare that I am a member of the
advisory board of the Archives, so this is a matter of concern to me.
Last Friday, the outgoing health department secretary, Glenys Beauchamp,
who had retired from the department at the close of business that day,
told the inquiry into the administration of the sports grants that she
had destroyed all of what she said were her notebooks. In seeking to
justify the action, she said:</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Small">I should not have notebooks and things as a private citizen after midnight tonight.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">She said:</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Small">They're just my scratchings that I
write down in a notebook of things that I might have to follow up on
and just a reminder to me …</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">She couldn't remember the detail
of the notes. Obviously, it's raised some pretty serious concerns given
that these records relate directly to actions of public servants in
their dealings with ministers, and the decision to destroy those records
of the meetings was well after this issue was a matter of considerable
public interest. I would ask if you could provide me with some advice on
the Attorney-General's Department's view. Section 24 of the
Commonwealth Archives Act states:</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Small">(1) … a person must not engage in conduct that results in:</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Small">(a) the destruction or other disposal of a Commonwealth record …</span></div>
<div class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Small"> </span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">I note this is a criminal offence
with strict liability. Mr Secretary, do you believe that the
destruction of the departmental secretary's records of a meeting with
the minister could constitute an offence against the Archives Act?</span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> It would depend
on the circumstances. Section 24 of the act, if I recall correctly,
provides exemptions—if the destruction is part of the normal
administration, for example. If there are jottings-down and a formal
record has been taken elsewhere, the second is the actual record. If
someone's jottings or notebooks have been destroyed, I don't know what
the situation is, but that's not necessarily a breach of the act on the
face of it. No-one expects everybody to keep every single piece of
paper. I think anyone would diligently ensure that anything that
requires recording will be recorded, whether in a minute commenting on
something or in other things. So it would depend. Let me just say any
suggestions of a breach of that act would depend on each agency coming
to that view. It's not as if I or the head of the Archives sits around
making sure that every single department doesn't breach the act. We
would depend on each agency to consider that.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I'm wondering whether or not a departmental
secretary's records of a meeting with their minister would usually
constitute a Commonwealth record for the purposes of the Archives Act.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I don't know. I
don't know whether that was the only record or whether it was just a
jotting-down of something that then was recorded elsewhere in a
so-called formal Commonwealth record under the act. I'm just speculating
here and giving you a scenario. If it's recorded elsewhere, so be it. I
don't see why that's problematic, although it depends on the
circumstances and I don't know what the circumstances were there.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Do you believe that a policy of destroying records
of meetings at the most senior levels of government is consistent with
the purposes of the National Archives?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I don't think
there is a policy of destruction from what I can tell. As far as I know,
that's not a practice that I'm aware of.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> All I could add
is that the Archives Act and information that the Archives itself
provides indicates that it's permissible to destroy a record, as the
secretary mentioned, in accordance with normal administrative practice.
The information the Archives provides envisages that that could occur if
that record is not needed to be retained to document an agency's
business, which could be for a range of circumstances—if it's
transitory, if there's duplicate material or if it's unofficial
information. So the circumstance where someone has translated any key
pieces of information that need to be retained to another more formal
record could mean that destruction is then permissible.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'll add to my
answer. The Public Service Commissioner has written back to Senator
Gallagher, I understand on 2 March, and he's provided me with a copy of
his correspondence. He said:</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Small" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Small">The Australian Public Service
Commission does not hold any evidence that there are widespread or
ongoing issues in the service relating to the destruction of documents.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">That accords with my understanding, albeit in a smaller context.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> On the normal practice, though, of a conversation
between the secretary and the minister, you're saying, in your
judgement, that that would not normally become a record of the
Commonwealth.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I wasn't saying
that. I was saying that there could be a record of conversation with the
minister that is recorded. For example, I could send an email to my
staff saying that I had a conversation with the Attorney, and these are
the two or three things that he wants actioned, or these are two or
three things that we discussed.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> There are two
separate issues at play there. One is an issue about whether it
qualifies as a record under the act, but that itself doesn't determine
whether it needs to be retained. There are further considerations,
including the possibility of reasons why destruction might be in
accordance with normal administrative practice, that mean that something
that is a record could be destroyed in certain circumstances, as I've
outlined.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> I'm conscious that—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Mr Fricker, who
is the head of the Archives, will be appearing this afternoon or
evening, and he may have his perspectives as well. So I don't wish to
pre-empt his views.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Thank
you very much. When we do resume, we will be going onto the next section
in the program, which is program 1.3 with the AGS.</span></div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<br /></div>
<div class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<b><span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">National Archives of Australia</span></b>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; text-indent: 0pt; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">[22:45]</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Our most patient agency award goes to the National Archives. Those from the Archives take the long view!</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Fricker</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Absolutely. And we never forget!</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> A 14-hour day is nothing for you! If you have one, feel free to give the briefest of opening statements.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Fricker</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'm pleased to advise you that I do not have an opening statement this evening.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> You know how to please me. Thank you very much, Mr Fricker. Senator Carr, you have the call.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Madam Chair, it's a bit rude to these officers to
engage them with some pretty serious matters at this hour, given they've
only got 15 minutes, so I give notice that at our next session, the
next round, I'd like to see the National Archives brought on earlier.
This seems to happen quite regularly, where they're shunted down to the
end of the program, so I'd just indicate to the officers we should make
more of an effort. I have got a lot of matters I want to raise.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> When we're getting the program together next time, let's make sure that we apply some scrutiny to that order.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes. Thank you. I take full responsibility for not paying more attention to what is clearly a problem.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> I'm happy to adjust it to give it the attention it deserves.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Thank you. So they can at least come prepared for
an earlier session. I'm interested in the Tune review. Mr Secretary, why
was the Tune review established?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I think it was
during the course of 2018 that both the director, Mr Fricker, and the
advisory council raised this with the Attorney and gave advice, as the
responsible people. The issue of funding for the Archives was one issue
that came up, and also the capability of the Archives to deliver on its
responsibilities under the act. On that basis, in early 2019 the
Attorney-General wrote to the chair of the council to acknowledge that
these issues of the functions, powers and resourcing of the NAA would
benefit from examination and that it was obvious that a functional and
efficiency review would be the way to go.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Thank you. So there were two substantive issues:
finance and the ability of the Archives to actually meet its statutory
obligations. When was the final report received by the department?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> The report was finalised on 30 January this year. Is that correct, Ms Chidgey?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We received it in early February.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> February?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> So a few weeks ago.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I think maybe 5 February was when we received it.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> When will it be published?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That's a matter for the Attorney. We've sent the report to the Attorney.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Minister, when will the Tune review be published?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> I'm not aware but I will seek advice.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> It was always intended that it would be published.
On my reading of the submissions, all the submitters had expectations
that it would be published. I don't know of any statement to the
contrary. What's the reason for the delay, Mr Secretary?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'll outline the chronology. We received it on the 5th, so that was some 15 days ago.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> It was actually late, wasn't it? It was intended to be a much shorter review than that, wasn't it?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> The original time frame—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Well, how long is a functional and efficiency review? It depends what you find.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> But, as to the original time frame, the terms of reference were set up in such a way that it was actually due much earlier.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes. We received it in the last three weeks, we're still going through it, the Attorney and his office will be looking at it—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> And we have yet to provide advice to the Attorney to enable him to do his review as well.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Thank you. That's the point, isn't it: the department's yet to provide advice. What's holding up your response?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Conversations
with other departments that the report is relevant to in government in
order to inform fully considered advice to the Attorney.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I see. Presumably you worked with Mr Tune throughout the process of the review. Would that be a fair description?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We were participating in the steering committee for the review.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes, the steering committee. Mr Tune's a highly
respected, highly authoritative public servant. He's retired now but
obviously he was commissioned to undertake this review because of his
standing within the service; would that be true?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> So I'm surprised, given that you were a member of the steering committee, that you're not able to respond more quickly.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Really?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> I am surprised, given that the—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Are you?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes, I am surprised.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We've had 3½
weeks to turn around a massive functional and efficiency review. While
we were on the steering committee, we still didn't see the final review
until 5 February, and you expect us to turn around this—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> You actually had this review. When did you
actually receive this review, as distinct from the final review? When
did you receive the draft review?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We saw drafts before that, but we obviously need the final review to be able to consider that.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes, I understand that, but we've got a budget process underway right now.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I don't accept that, Senator.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> You don't accept that we've got a budget process underway right now?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I don't accept that we're taking an inappropriate length of time to respond to this.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Tell me: have you commissioned the Boston Consulting Group to undertake a further study?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Of what?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> The matters contained by the Tune review.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Not that I'm aware of.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Is that the case? Has the Boston Consulting Group been commissioned to undertake a further study?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Not that I'm
aware. It's possible the Archives might have been looking at getting
them, because there's further work to be done on top of that.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Is that true? Has the Boston Consulting Group been commissioned to do further work for you?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Fricker</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No, we have not
commissioned the Boston Consulting Group to do any consultancy for the
National Archives. If I could speculate, it has been reported that
Boston Consulting Group has been engaged to consider scoping aspects of
the Public Service reform.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> So, Mr Secretary, is it true? Has the Boston Consulting Group been commissioned?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We have no idea what you're talking about, Senator.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> I think there is a BCG commission for another government entity. I don't know whether that is—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Which is that entity?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We're not aware
of any consulting group, whether it's Boston or anyone else, who is
being superimposed on Mr Tune's functional and efficiency review of the
NAA.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Senator Carr, you've got a direct answer.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> No, I'm asking the question.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> You and I would agree entirely about the merit and
standing of David Tune. That is not in question in any way whatsoever.
Therefore, we would also agree, I presume, that it is a comprehensive
review and one which requires appropriate consideration by government
and appropriate advice from agencies. So, if it has been in the
possession of the agency for a matter of weeks only, I think Mr
Secretary Moraitis is absolutely entitled to say they'll consider it
properly before they advise government.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Of course I would expect the secretary to say
they'll consider it properly. But, like you, I understand that the
Boston Consulting Group has been commissioned to undertake further work.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> But not in relation to this matter. I said 'another entity of government'.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> What other entity of government would that be?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> I just want to make sure that I have it correct
before I put something on the record. But it is not the Archives and
it's not the Attorney-General's Department.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> What is it, then?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> I'll check. It's the Fair Work Commission. That is a public matter, as I understand it.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> It has nothing whatsoever to do with the public records of this country?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> No.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> There is nothing
involving any consultancy group to do with the functional and
efficiency review or a review of the review. Having a review, in itself,
is sufficient. We're more than happy with the functional and efficiency
review of Mr Tune.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> Trust me. Having gone through multiple functional and efficiency review, I can say you're right.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We can assure
you that, as you said, anything Mr Tune has looked at we would look at
very carefully, and his consideration will be taken into account.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FM56%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberWitness">
<span class="HPS-MemberWitness">Senator Payne:</span>
</a> You've woken everyone up, Senator, so thank you for that.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> There is just a slight correction: the date on which we received it was 31 January.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> It's neither here nor there. My concern is that
there has been a suggestion that there's been a further consultancy
sought on top of Mr Tune's review. Are the departmental secretaries
considering this matter?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Which departmental secretaries?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> The Commonwealth departmental secretaries. Are they considering this matter?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> No. We're considering it and talking to other key relevant departments, and then we'll provide advice to the Attorney.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Ms Chidgey said
that, in the process of giving advice to the Attorney about the Tune
review, she and her team are consulting with all the stakeholders who
have an interest in the Archives, which by definition is a very broad
spectrum of interested parties.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Absolutely, and they must have an interest by law.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Correct. That's what we would like to consult with them about.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> That's why I'm concerned, given that the reason
for the review to be established was, as you've indicated, a fundamental
problem about the capacity to undertake statutory obligations because
of lack of money. That was the reason why the review was established.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That's why I said there was a functional and efficiency review established. That was the first thing I said, five seconds ago.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> That's right. When will there be a response from the department?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We're providing
advice to the Attorney and we'll do that in coming weeks when we've
consulted other key departments. I might just correct the record on the
purpose of the review, which was to look more broadly at effective and
efficient undertaking of archives functions.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That's what functional efficiency reviews have done.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes. How does it relate to the Audit Office's findings in regard to the Archives?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Fricker</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I believe you're
referring to the National Audit Office's audit into oversight and
administration of the Digital Continuity 2020 policy. The headline
finding was that we were largely ineffective in the monitoring and
oversight of that program. We have responded to the recommendations to
introduce greater levels of oversight and governance into those
processes. Of course, there is some intersection there—that Mr Tune did
look into our resourcing and our capacity to apply the levels of
oversight and governance necessary to discharge the responsibilities
that we have. So there's certainly a relationship between our capacity
to successfully deliver major programs and, if you like, the resourcing
and the workforce that we have.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> When was the ANAO report tabled?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr McGuire</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> At the end of October, I believe.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Mr Secretary, does the department take that matter
into consideration when it's examining the budgetary situation at the
Archives?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We are aware of
the audit because we were one of the agencies that was part of that
process. We have been engaged with the ANAO in that space.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> How would you describe that ANAO report received on 31 October?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I can't recall
what our response was to that report. I'll have to take that on notice. I
don't think there was anything problematic.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> A response to that is a matter for the Archives.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Yes, it was a matter. If I could ask the director-general: it would be fair to say it was a scathing report, wouldn't it?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Fricker</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> That's correct,
Senator. There's no point in describing it any other way. I would, for
the record, still acknowledge that the staff at the Archives have been
able to achieve results and effect across the Public Service in the
overall administration of government records and the transition to
digital information management record-keeping. However, I cannot escape
the conclusions of the Auditor-General in terms of our oversight
administration and aspects of the governance through which we deliver
that program—that they were lacking.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> What functions do you believe will need to cease due to staff shortages?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Fricker</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We constantly
look across the functions that we perform in terms of discretionary
functions we perform and non-discretionary functions. Non-discretionary
areas include, of course, preservation of records which we've determined
have archival value. We will do our utmost to ensure that we protect
those records against deterioration and loss, which means the more
discretionary services are around public services—that is, providing
access to the records, particularly through digital channels, and our
capability to use digital preservation technology to rescue, in
particular, records created on magnetic tape, which are deteriorating
and will be lost beyond the year 2025 unless we're able to provide some
sort of remedial action.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Time is
getting very short. I'll put a few things down on notice. Madam Chair, I
repeat: I do want a bit of time to actually go through this material.
Given the secretary's response, I'm looking forward to the opportunity
to go through this in some detail, particularly the department's role
because I'm very concerned about how smaller agencies are treated in the
budget processes. There's the Archives Act itself. My understanding is
that there have been measures around to actually update the Archives Act
for some years, going back to former Attorney-General Brandis. Is that
the case?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> Yes. I recall the advisory council raised that with Senator Brandis several times in the past.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Is there legislation in the department ready to be brought forward?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'd like to take that on notice.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Ms Chidgey</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> We'll have to take it on notice.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> While you're looking at it, what is your
expectation in terms of that matter being put to government to actually
get on the business list?</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-WitnessName">Mr Moraitis</span>
<span class="HPS-GeneralBold">:</span> I'll have to take on notice whether it actually has been—</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<a href="https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22handbook%2Fallmps%2FAW5%22;querytype=;rec=0" type="MemberContinuation">
<span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
</a> Given the hour, Madam Chair, I'll come back to this at another date.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span class="HPS-OfficeCommittee">CHAIR:</span> Thank
you very much. We really appreciate the time you made and the time you
waited to give your evidence this evening. We will adjourn this hearing
of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs additional estimates process. I
thank Broadcasting for their diligence and patience. I thank officers of
the secretariat for their help. From a personal perspective, I thank
senators who have behaved so courteously in the course of the day.</span>
</div>
<div class="HPS-Normal" style="direction: ltr; unicode-bidi: normal;">
<span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
</div>
<span class="HPS-Normal">
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold;"></span></span></div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-31624699392063591392020-02-04T16:50:00.000+11:002020-02-04T16:51:40.892+11:00Another closed book: letters from Governor General to the Queen 45 years ago?<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<h1 class="legacy">
Explainer: what is the 'palace letters' case and what will the High Court consider?</h1>
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<img height="320" src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/313193/original/file-20200202-41516-912kmf.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" width="315" />
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Gough Whitlam outside Parliament House on November 11, 1975.
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">National Archives of Australia</span></span>
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<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/anne-twomey-6072">Anne Twomey</a>, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/university-of-sydney-841">University of Sydney</a></i>
<br />
The <a href="https://theconversation.com/australian-politics-explainer-gough-whitlams-dismissal-as-prime-minister-74148">dismissal of the Whitlam government</a> in 1975 remains as controversial as ever. Its last chapter is to be decided in the <a href="https://sydney.edu.au/content/dam/corporate/documents/sydney-law-school/research/publications/slrv42n1mar2020bthctwomeyweb.pdf">High Court</a> today when it hears a case brought by historian <a href="https://theconversation.com/relics-of-colonialism-the-whitlam-dismissal-and-the-fight-over-the-palace-letters-89310">Jenny Hocking seeking public access to the letters</a> between the governor-general, Sir John Kerr, and the queen.<br />
Government files on the crisis were released by the National Archives under the <a href="https://www.naa.gov.au/help-your-research/using-collection/access-records-under-archives-act">30-year rule</a> and Kerr’s own private notes and reminiscences, which he deposited with the archives, have also been released. <br />
But the letters that Kerr sent to the queen, through her private secretary, about the crisis and any replies, have not been released because they have been treated as “private” correspondence owned by Kerr, and subject to the conditions he placed on them. <br />
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<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/relics-of-colonialism-the-whitlam-dismissal-and-the-fight-over-the-palace-letters-89310">Relics of colonialism: the Whitlam dismissal and the fight over the Palace letters</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
<h2>
Conditions of access</h2>
The conditions were that they be opened 60 years after Kerr ceased to be governor-general, after “consultation” with the monarch’s private secretary and the official secretary to the governor-general. This was later unilaterally changed, on the queen’s instructions, to 50 years, but with the “approval” (rather than consultation) of the representatives of the monarch and the governor-general. It remains unclear what power the queen had to change and control conditions on access, if the documents belonged to Kerr, as it is claimed, and not the queen. <br />
This change in the deposit conditions is critical, because we now know that the Palace is <a href="https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/palace-backtracks-on-governorsgeneral-richard-caseys-letters/news-story/205a61416c6ff49d0c74792124bd1d74">refusing access</a> to correspondence with any of the queen’s former governors-general, even when the 50 years is up, for a period until at least five years after the death of the queen, and then only if the new monarch agrees.<br />
This means it may never be released, or may be redacted or released only in part.<br />
<h2>
Public or private correspondence?</h2>
One problem with assessing whether the correspondence is public or private in nature is that none of the decision-makers, including the courts, have seen the letters. But experience can tell us a few things about them. First, the queen never personally engages in correspondence with her governors-general. All correspondence goes through her private secretary, and it is he (as they have always been male) who responds to the governor-general.<br />
In times past, when the governor-general was a member of the British aristocracy or upper classes, there was a “personal” element to this correspondence. Letters from <a href="http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/stonehaven-john-lawrence-baird-8679">Lord Stonehaven</a>, when he was Australia’s governor-general from 1925 to 1930, to the King’s private secretary included discussions about shooting parties, children at Eton and general gossip.<br />
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Byng,_1st_Viscount_Byng_of_Vimy">Lord Byng</a>, when governor-general of Canada and facing his own <a href="https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/king-byng-affair">constitutional crisis</a>, addressed the King’s formidable private secretary, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Bigge,_1st_Baron_Stamfordham">Lord Stamfordham</a>, as “My Beloved Stamfy”. There was a mix, at that time, of personal and official roles.<br />
But since the governor-general has been an Australian, the personal aspect has disappeared, and the correspondence became quarterly reports informing the monarch of political, economic, trade, agricultural and social conditions in Australia. The purpose was, and remains, to ensure the monarch is well informed and can therefore more effectively fulfil his or her role with respect to Australia. <br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="https://theconversation.com/australian-politics-explainer-gough-whitlams-dismissal-as-prime-minister-74148">Australian politics explainer: Gough Whitlam's dismissal as prime minister</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
In addition, there was an obligation on the governor-general to explain any exercise of a power that was done without, or contrary to, ministerial advice, such as refusing a dissolution or dismissing a government. This was strictly enforced.<br />
It is therefore clear, and accepted by the parties, that the correspondence was entered into by Kerr and the queen’s private secretary, as part of their official functions. It was not “personal” in the sense that it concerned family or social matters. It was only personal in the sense that Kerr was writing to the queen personally about how he had fulfilled his functions as her representative. Yet, in doing so, he was fulfilling an official function of the office.<br />
<h2>
Who owns property in the letters?</h2>
The Archives Act makes a distinction between “Commonwealth records”, which are “<a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aa198398/s3.html">property of the Commonwealth</a>” and the records belonging to private individuals. So the question is, who owns the “property” in the letters? This raises consideration of who owns the piece of paper the letter is written on, who holds copyright in the letter, whether the sender or recipient owns the letters (and any copies they kept), the capacity in which the letters were written and who currently possesses the letters. <br />
The question for the High Court is which of these factors are relevant or decisive when reading the term “Commonwealth records” in the context of the entire Act, including its purpose of <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aa198398/s2a.html">preserving and giving public access</a> to the nation’s historical records.<br />
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In the past, some governors-general had taken these letters with them on leaving office. If this indicated they believed they owned the letters, is this enough? Belief would not normally be enough to transfer ownership in a document written by an officer of the Commonwealth in an official capacity. <br />
The <a href="http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/aa198398/s6.html">Archives Act also recognises</a> that Commonwealth records may end up in private hands, and when private collections are deposited with the archives, any documents within that collection that are “Commonwealth records” are to be treated as such.<br />
This means they must be kept confidential for the requisite period (which has been progressively reduced from 30 years to 20 years) and publicly released if not subject to other exemptions, regardless of any conflicting conditions applied by the depositor.<br />
<h2>
What is at stake?</h2>
If correspondence between the governor-general and the queen is treated as “private” records, rather than Commonwealth records, significant risks arise. <br />
First, this means that whoever inherits the property of the governor-general could sell these records to the highest bidder, at any time, without any secrecy limits or government control. It could be sold to a media organisation that prematurely publicises and sensationalises the letters for profit, or to a private collector who never makes the letters public. <br />
Second, where the documents have been deposited with the archives as a “private” collection, and made subject to conditions that they not be released without the approval of the monarch’s private secretary, they may never be released, or released only in a limited and misleading form. <br />
In both cases, there is a significant risk that Australians will be denied access to, and understanding of, not only one of the greatest political crises in Australia’s history, but how the highest offices in the land actually operate in our system of government. It is hard to believe the Archives Act could be interpreted as operating in a manner that would deny Australians control over and access to such important records of their history.<!-- Below is The Conversation's page counter tag. Please DO NOT REMOVE. --><img alt="The Conversation" height="1" src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/131000/count.gif?distributor=republish-lightbox-basic" style="border: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; margin: 0 !important; max-height: 1px !important; max-width: 1px !important; min-height: 1px !important; min-width: 1px !important; opacity: 0 !important; outline: none !important; padding: 0 !important; text-shadow: none !important;" width="1" /><!-- End of code. If you don't see any code above, please get new code from the Advanced tab after you click the republish button. The page counter does not collect any personal data. More info: http://theconversation.com/republishing-guidelines --><br />
<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/anne-twomey-6072">Anne Twomey</a>, Professor of Constitutional Law, <i><a href="https://theconversation.com/institutions/university-of-sydney-841">University of Sydney</a></i><br />
This article is republished from <a href="http://theconversation.com/">The Conversation</a> under a Creative Commons license. Read the <a href="https://theconversation.com/explainer-what-is-the-palace-letters-case-and-what-will-the-high-court-consider-131000">original article</a>.</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-66659569397356089132020-01-26T11:02:00.001+11:002020-01-26T11:02:15.947+11:00Australia Day Honours are a closed book<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
A bit of interest today in transparency amid <a href="https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/men-s-rights-activist-honoured-for-service-to-gender-equity-20200124-p5">controversy</a> over decisions on honours awards by the Australia Day Council .<br />
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Are decisions or any other documents held by the Council Secretariat (staff in the Office of the Governor General) subject to FOI?<br />
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Nope.<br />
<br />
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span> This from my blog in 2013: </span></span></span><br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>"The High Court in Kline v Official Secretary to the Governor General
[2013] HCA 52) ruled that documents concerning the operation of the
Honours system are not within scope of the Freedom of Information Act.
The decision ends a long running legal tussle regarding interpretation
and application of s 6A which places the Official Secretary's office
(among its other support functions, it is the Australian Honours and
Awards Secretariat) outside the operation of the act "unless the
document relates to matters of an administrative nature." </span></span></span></blockquote>
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><span>More here </span><a data-lynx-mode="asynclazy" href="https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F2OeTd5J%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0UGpHrP0O8Y880ZJDBt4LMgizLaDKqmN2MRtTDjkS0ah105PJzLP6jAYs&h=AT05sUyrSt3wSMjrA6D_X77KM9QMfAZUseCWUbWIh6QyCuj0OGO08nxizIXX-xjc2OM7IxYMYu3G0tJ3b9bGzrSqkA_bsnx-NEuTt_joNcAXoUq6sl_BEKlDFE0VFmxi12QG6SbZwA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://bit.ly/2OeTd5J</a></span></span><br />
<br />
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">Nothing has changed since. </span></span><br />
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<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">Calls for FOI reform on a wide range of fronts have got nowhere.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">Seven years of coalition government and the most notable contribution to FOI in that time is the eventually unsuccessful attempt in 2014 to abolish the Office of Australian Information Commissioner. </span></span><br />
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><br /></span></span>
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">Among the mostly uncontroversial awards was the well deserved Order of Australia OA for <a href="http://www.fionamcleodsc.com/about">Fiona McLeod SC</a>, </span></span><span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">the Chair of the Accountability Round Table and a former Chair of
Transparency International Australia and the Open Government Forum, among many other wonderful accomplishments. Congratulations Fiona.</span></span><br />
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x"><br /></span></span>
<span dir="ltr"><span class="_3l3x">Have a thoughtful Australia Day.</span></span></div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-1237242909840063212019-12-30T13:56:00.003+11:002019-12-30T13:56:59.339+11:00Andrew Podger on Thodey and the government response<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<h1 class="legacy">
Report on public service overhaul a good start, but parliamentary inquiry is needed</h1>
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<img src="https://images.theconversation.com/files/307384/original/file-20191217-58329-7edtvt.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip" />
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The Morrison government has rejected any recommendations that would strengthen the independence of the public service.
<span class="attribution"><span class="source">AAP/Mick Tsikas</span></span>
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<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/andrew-podger-98535">Andrew Podger</a>, <i><a href="http://theconversation.com/institutions/australian-national-university-877">Australian National University</a></i>
<br />
The final report of the <a href="https://www.apsreview.gov.au/">Independent Review of the Australian Public Service</a> is much more substantial than its interim report. That is hardly a high hurdle, but its 18-page bibliography suggests considerable reflection beyond the (mostly disappointing) <a href="https://contribute.apsreview.gov.au/submissions">submissions</a> and commissioned papers.<br />
However, the report still has an excessive amount of rhetoric and is not an easy read. <br />
Broadly, its themes are:<br />
<ul>
<li>a united service</li>
<li>partnerships beyond the APS</li>
<li>embracing new technology</li>
<li>investing in people and capability</li>
<li>a more dynamic and responsive operational model</li>
<li>improved leadership and governance.</li>
</ul>
There are many sensible recommendations, but detail is often missing and analysis weak. Some recommendations reveal a surprising lack of understanding of the public sector.<br />
The central theme of a “united” service is overdone, notwithstanding the case for greater coordination today. The APS does not need “an inspiring purpose and vision” – the first objective set out in the <a href="https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2004A00538">Public Service Act 1999</a> is clear. It is:<br />
<blockquote>
to establish an apolitical public service that is efficient and effective in serving the Government, the Parliament and the Australian public.</blockquote>
The <a href="https://www.legislation.gov.au/Series/C2004A00538">APS Values</a> also define the role of the APS as an institution. The review might have made more of the High Court’s references to these in confirming the constitutional standing of the APS.<br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="http://theconversation.com/view-from-the-hill-morrison-wont-have-a-bar-of-public-service-intrusions-on-governments-power-128880">View from The Hill: Morrison won't have a bar of public service intrusions on government's power</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
The review is right to press for a better coordinated service today, retreating from the late 1990s devolution under the <a href="https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_POUV_141_0117--the-new-public-management-in-australia.htm">new public management</a> model. That Australia went too far is very clear (particularly on pay and conditions). Public expectations in light of modern technology are also demanding much greater connectivity today.<br />
But the review goes too far the other way. The APS performs a wide range of functions, each requiring specialist expertise. <br />
The <a href="https://www.apsc.gov.au/senior-leadership-aps">Secretaries Board</a> is not like a private sector board. Cabinet and ministers are the primary decision-makers under the Constitution, and secretaries’ first responsibilities are within their portfolios, serving and advising their ministers and delivering services and implementing government policies. At the centre it will always be primarily the responsibility of the Australian Public Service Commission (APSC) and the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&C) to do the administrative coordination, though necessarily in close consultation with secretaries and other agency heads.<br />
Perhaps the most valuable contribution of the report relates to the application of new technology. It makes a convincing case for very substantial new capital investments over many years and for increasing allocations for minor capital investment. These, and the associated building of skills, are necessary for more citizen-centred services and a more digitally enabled administration. <br />
The report is also on the right track with several other themes:<br />
<ul>
<li>invest in people and strengthen capability </li>
<li>reduce hierarchy and promote more dynamic teamwork across the service</li>
<li>improve governance and leadership, including by firmer merit-based approaches to appointments.</li>
</ul>
But the report pulls its punches about the causes of the problems. It could have been clearer about what needs to be fixed. <br />
Why has strategic policy advising capacity declined and other expertise been lost? Why has evaluation activity and skills dropped away? Why has the APS become more risk-averse and hierarchical?<br />
Thankfully, the Thodey Report does include recommendations aimed at strengthening the standing of the APS and clarifying relations with the government and the parliament. These include:<br />
<ul>
<li>the accountability and integrity of ministerial staff </li>
<li>secretary and other agency head appointments and terminations, the respective roles of the APSC and secretary of PM&C, and the appointment of the APS commissioner.</li>
</ul>
Even if I disagree with some aspects, the report at least puts these things firmly on the table (see also my recent Parliamentary Library <a href="https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/Vis/vis1920/RoleoftheAPS-PUB">lecture</a>).<br />
On several other matters there is a disappointing lack of detail, despite the report often pointing in the right direction. These include:<br />
<ul>
<li>The discussion of the APS Values ends up proposing some new statement of “principles” to supplement the values. What is needed is to recast the values to reflect more directly the APS’s unique institutional role (and return “merit” to the list).</li>
<li>The important discussion of place-management fails to set out the architecture required at community and regional levels, and how it might link with state government service delivery.</li>
<li>The discussion on budgeting rightly highlights the importance of adequate capital investment, but overlooks the equally important issue of how running costs should be financed (without crude efficiency dividends).</li>
</ul>
<h2>
The government’s response</h2>
Michelle Grattan <a href="https://theconversation.com/view-from-the-hill-morrison-wont-have-a-bar-of-public-service-intrusions-on-governments-power-128880">correctly summarised</a> the response as solidifying the power of the prime minister and rejecting any recommendations that would strengthen the standing and independence of the APS. <br />
Sadly, the result will be that many of the recommendations ostensibly “agreed” by the government will not succeed because the drivers behind the reduced capability of the APS (and its risk-averse and hierarchical culture) will remain and will probably grow stronger.<br />
The repeated references in the response to “consistent with the Secretaries Board’s advice” when a recommendation was not agreed is both odd and worrying. If the advice was as claimed, I can only surmise that it demonstrates to the rest of the APS the leadership’s lack of frank and fearless advice. Surely the Secretaries Board supports a more uniform pay and conditions framework, and a more robust process for their own appointments and terminations?<br />
On a positive note, the government agrees with the majority of the recommendations, particularly those relating to digital technology. Most of the responsibility for proceeding will lie with the APS itself. Whether the government will eventually sign up to the capital funding the head of the review, David Thodey, believes will be needed (initially at least A$100 million a year after the audit is complete) is uncertain.<br />
The government has so far <a href="https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/government-rejects-call-for-political-staffer-code-of-conduct-after-public-service-review-20191213-p53jpe.html">agreed only to A$15 million</a> over two years to start work on all the agreed recommendations.<br />
<h2>
Machinery of government</h2>
Aspects of the prime minister’s <a href="https://theconversation.com/morrison-cuts-a-swathe-through-the-public-service-with-five-departmental-heads-gone-128306">earlier announcement</a> about machinery-of-government changes have merit. They include:<br />
<ul>
<li>reducing the separation of policy and administration by replacing DHS with an executive agency within the DSS portfolio</li>
<li>re-establishing strong links between education, employment and training</li>
<li>separating energy from the environment, recognising that the tensions between these major functions should be settled in cabinet.</li>
</ul>
But the failure to recognise such changes only work if aligned to ministry arrangements is extraordinary. The 1987 introduction of mega-departments was only partly to do with economies of scale. Mostly it was about streamlining cabinet: allowing cabinet to be small and manageable while still having every (portfolio) department represented, and allowing portfolio ministers to exercise, with their assistant ministers, more responsibility including over resource allocation.<br />
<hr />
<i>
<b>
Read more:
<a href="http://theconversation.com/morrison-cuts-a-swathe-through-the-public-service-with-five-departmental-heads-gone-128306">Morrison cuts a swathe through the public service, with five departmental heads gone</a>
</b>
</i>
<br />
<hr />
The prime minister’s claim that his restructuring will ensure “congestion busting” and a much improved “line of sight” is contrived and almost certainly illusory. It cannot be achieved without “line of sight” between ministers and the public service. The new infrastructure department will have eight ministers, four in cabinet, several with responsibilities in other portfolios, and around 80 ministerial staff. This is hardly a recipe for a stronger focus on serving the public.<br />
We do not know what, if any, advice the APS provided about these changes. My fear is that APS expertise in such matters has deteriorated greatly in recent years. <br />
Apart from this misalignment between the ministry and the machinery of government, some of the details of these changes are wanting. In particular, there remains a serious problem about the separation of Medicare Australia from health policy.<br />
<h2>
Where to from here?</h2>
The Morrison government’s pronouncements over the past fortnight confirm its lack of real interest in the public service as an institution. Sadly, it seems much of the conservative side of politics has lost the sort of support of our institutions that Menzies and other traditionalists exemplified.<br />
Equally, it would be wrong to rely on the other side of politics to pursue the directions in the Thodey Report that the Morrison government has ruled out. Not only would this ignore Labor’s contribution over the years to the current sorry state of affairs, but it would set up for partisan debate the appropriate governance and degree of independence of the APS, something inimical to what fundamentally must be non-partisan.<br />
Instead, we need the parliament to intervene, if not in the immediate light of the Thodey Report and the government’s response, then before or shortly after the next election. A Senate select committee might be asked to undertake an inquiry into the relationship between the APS, the government and the parliament. It should examine:<br />
<ul>
<li>the constitutional role of the APS and how this is reflected in the Public Service Act</li>
<li>the distinctive values of the APS in line with its constitutional role</li>
<li>the corresponding distinctive values of other components of the Commonwealth, including within the executive, the legislature and the judiciary</li>
<li>the processes for appointing and terminating secretaries and other APS agency heads</li>
<li>the respective roles of the APS commissioner and secretary of PM&C</li>
<li>the roles and responsibilities of secretaries, senior executives and the Secretaries Board</li>
<li>the Members of Parliament Staffing Act and associated accountability arrangements.</li>
</ul>
This inquiry should consider Thodey’s recommendations and other options, and be asked to come up with its own concrete recommendations.<!-- Below is The Conversation's page counter tag. Please DO NOT REMOVE. --><img alt="The Conversation" height="1" src="https://counter.theconversation.com/content/127602/count.gif?distributor=republish-lightbox-basic" style="border: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; margin: 0 !important; max-height: 1px !important; max-width: 1px !important; min-height: 1px !important; min-width: 1px !important; opacity: 0 !important; outline: none !important; padding: 0 !important; text-shadow: none !important;" width="1" /><!-- End of code. If you don't see any code above, please get new code from the Advanced tab after you click the republish button. The page counter does not collect any personal data. More info: http://theconversation.com/republishing-guidelines --><br />
<a href="https://theconversation.com/profiles/andrew-podger-98535">Andrew Podger</a>, Honorary Professor of Public Policy, <i><a href="http://theconversation.com/institutions/australian-national-university-877">Australian National University</a></i><br />
This article is republished from <a href="http://theconversation.com/">The Conversation</a> under a Creative Commons license. Read the <a href="https://theconversation.com/report-on-public-service-overhaul-a-good-start-but-parliamentary-inquiry-is-needed-127602">original article</a>.</div>
Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18815215.post-6258706601742609232019-12-13T13:44:00.001+11:002019-12-13T13:44:47.903+11:00Government quick to hose down Thodey call for FOI reform<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
Analysis of the <a href="https://pm.gov.au/media/delivering-australians-world-class-australian-public-service">Thodey report</a> on the APS and the government response released today will take time but I thumbed my way quickly to Chapter 4 "Partner for Greater Impact" Page 114 which lays out the path toward a new open engaged public service that is more partner than commander.<br />
<br />
I'd like to see that. <br />
<br />
The report continues:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"To accompany the new approach to engagement it is timely to examine the suite of privacy, FOI and record-keeping rules and regulations to ensure they are fit for purpose for the digital age, now and into the future, with an emphasis on openness. As a general principle, it should be as simple, fast and cheap as possible for interested parties to access information held and generated by the APS."</blockquote>
I'd like to see that also because the government in December 2016 <a href="https://ogpau.pmc.gov.au/commitment/31-information-management-and-access-laws-21st-century">committed</a> to ensure that information access laws, policies and practices are fit for the twenty first century, and three years later has nothing to show for it.<br />
<br />
Remarkably the one point of detail that follows in the report is a plea for more confidentiality for public service advice.<br />
<br />
There's no attempt at detailed examination of the issue, simply acceptance that<span style="font-family: "arial" , "helvetica" , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: small;"> </span></span>'the Commonwealth FOI laws now present a significant barrier to frank written advice" followed by a suggestion of 'critical' importance that written advice 'remain confidential.' Presumably this would be achieved by ditching the public interest test that has been part of the FOI act for 37 years.<br />
<br />
The APS Review delivered 40 recommendations and the Government agrees with the majority of them <br />
<br />
<br />
But on this one the government response,seems to be a big yawn: <br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
"The Government <b>notes</b> the proposal for a new
wide-ranging review of privacy, FOI and record-keeping arrangements. The
Government’s principal focus is to ensure that agencies effectively implement
current requirements, addressing practical problems where required. Any further
reform to these arrangements would be considered separately to the Government’s
response to the APS Review. </blockquote>
Posted in haste. <br />
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Peter Timminshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04589018910216965607noreply@blogger.com0